Author Topic: Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6  (Read 88731 times)

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Offline Puppylove

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #240 on: February 03, 2008, 12:23:01 PM »
I opened up a new thread in the book discussion boards to continue the Kurth discussion, if anyone's interested.
"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

"...and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Offline Foxglove

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #241 on: February 03, 2008, 04:07:42 PM »
Plus, it is extremely hard to learn one language--let alone three--unless one starts at a young age.  I think this needs to be addressed as well.

That would depend on the person. I had to study French for almost seven years in school, and I can barely string two sentences together. This took place during my elementary school days, when as a child, I should have picked the language up with lesser problems than an adult. However, as an adult, when I took one semester of Spanish at college, I found it so much easier to learn, in that I was able to carry on a rudimentary conversation with an Argentinean woman by the end of the course of four months (I got an A in the course).

Meanwhile, I just returned from a trip to Mexico, where most of the staff at my hotel can speak up to four languages. Apart from their native Spanish, most can speak English, French, Italian, and German. These people never had the luxury of being taught other languages at school, and since they are all in their early twenties to thirties (a couple of folks in their late teens), we could not classify them as young children, either. I can tell you first hand that their English is very good, in that it goes beyond the basic greetings and small talk of weather, one’s location, etc. When I heard different staff members chattering away in Italian and German with relative ease, I assumed the same held true when speaking in those languages as well. The hotel never trained for them to learn any of these languages (I asked); they just learned from interacting with the guests. Our taxi driver said he learned English “from the streets” (I suppose interacting with people, too).

So what does this mean in the end? Some people, even as adults, have an easy time picking up languages; some (like me) have an easy time picking up certain languages, but not others. What we really should be inquiring is as to whether AA was actually fluent in languages such as Russian, or whether she could merely carry on a conversation at an intermediate (but not elementary level), or whether she simply “understood” them without actually speaking them.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #242 on: February 03, 2008, 05:03:30 PM »
My Grandmother, from Warsaw born in 1886, had little formal schooling past about our 8th grade. She could read, write and do arithmetic.  She spoke Polish, Yiddish, English, Russian and German. We today forget how "polyglot" Central Europe and Poland were at the turn of the 20th century.  Poles spoke their native polish of course, Russian because they were part of the Russian Empire, Jews spoke Yiddish, and many also spoke German because of the close relationship with Germany and Poland.

the "language" question is a non-evidentiary issue to me.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #243 on: February 03, 2008, 05:30:41 PM »
Annie, AGRBear has her own forum? Then Kurth has found a safe haven indeed!

Peter Kurth has his own website.

He does not need my forum as a "safe haven".

Before you let others make up your mind about my forum,  please,  join myself and others and see for yourself.   My site is based on facts accompanied by sources, and,  I respect everyone's opinion.

http://agrbear.hyperboards.com/

Trying to compare the one known COPY of a photograph which we are told is that of FS is difficult, because we don't know if the copy is good copy or if it was altered.  Unfortunately,  the original has been bought by an unknown person therefore we can't compare the original to the copy so experts can tell us if the copy is  true likeness or not.

It matters not to me if the copy is a true likeness,  I am just interested in my journey in discovering the truth. 

What is is?

AGRBear




« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 05:48:36 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #244 on: February 03, 2008, 06:00:11 PM »
Bear, the pic you posted is not retouched. It may be a weak, faded COPY but it's not retouched. What could anyone have done to it? It's so blurry!

Compare: faded unretouched copy of FS photo on left, retouched on right. Big difference.



Some believe the two white dotes were lent on the slide the photographer used when he copied the original photo / or copy of FS.  Others suggest the two white dotes are  "china white" [correction fluid]  used to alter a copy of a copy and it had not completely dried which resulted in the two smudges in the hair. 

Both photos above have the two white dotes/ smudges.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 06:06:14 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #245 on: February 03, 2008, 06:40:42 PM »
I agree with FA on the language issue.

AA never proved to anyone's satisfaction that she could speak Russian and I believe her English (in the beginning) had a Polish or German accent. Actually, in the Dahldorf, she wouldn't speak at all.

Remember also, that the Grand Duchesses were NOT taught German.  Everyone in the family conversed in English because Alix could not speak Russian and would not speak German.  English was the only language that Alix and Nicholas had in common!

Odd, now that I think about it, that Nicholas with all of his mastery of languages did not speak German.

Alix's French was determined to be "school girl" and French was the official language of the court.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2008, 08:07:50 PM by Forum Admin »

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #246 on: February 03, 2008, 08:13:28 PM »
AlixZ

The Grand Duchesses WERE taught German. They didn't speak it well, but were taught German.

Offline Puppylove

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #247 on: February 03, 2008, 09:21:26 PM »
AGRBear, I'm sorry if it appeared I was being rude re your forum being a "safe haven."  As a newbie I've taken the time to read hundreds (maybe thousands!) of the myth and legend posts and it's clear to me that you are the most open-minded poster this board has ever known. It's your willingness to explore ALL possibilities that prompted my Kurth comment. I meant no offense to you personally.

Thanks so much for the invitation to visit your forum!
Jenn

"The censor's sword pierces deeply into the heart of free expression." Earl Warren

"...and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32

Offline Annie

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #248 on: February 03, 2008, 10:48:38 PM »
I agree with FA on the language issue.

Yes, me too. People think that because someone is 'poor' they don't know languages. Maybe because most people in the US, poor or not, do not speak foreign languages, mainly because it's a big country and they don't have to. In some parts of Europe, as FA said, there were so many languages so close together people had to learn them out of necessity. I also know people who studied 2 or 3 years of German or French in school and now can hardly speak it at all.

Quote
AA never proved to anyone's satisfaction that she could speak Russian and I believe her English (in the beginning) had a Polish or German accent. Actually, in the Dahldorf, she wouldn't speak at all.

In the beginning? Her English stank until the end! Get a copy of the NOVA special and listen to how grammatically bad her broken English was, and how bad her accent was, even after years in the US!

I am not convinced AA knew much of any language other than German and Polish (Kashub) before she started pretending to be Anastasia. All we have as 'proof' are a few comments from supporters who claim to have heard her. Others, like Olga and Felix Y., said she was only functional in German when they met her in the 20's. SHE never proved she could speak Russian or French in public, and you'd think if she could have, she would have.  The REAL AN would have spoken good English with a British accent, because that's what she heard every day from her parents growing up. A REAL AN would have known a great deal of French. German was the least known and used of the Romanov kids, yet it was AA's language of choice. That is a glaring blooper for AA IMO.




Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #249 on: February 04, 2008, 02:26:28 PM »
This is a reminder to stay On Topic.

If Grand Duchess Ella has time to split this topic, terrific. As a moderator, my only interest is to keep everyone on subject and to ensure that everyone "plays nicely with others".

The subject of what languages Anna Anderson spoke is indeed interesting, but it is not pertinent to AA/AN/FS Photographic Comparison, and all further posts on that topic will be removed, as were posts relative to Mr. Kurth, after my instruction to return to topic.

Alixz

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #250 on: February 04, 2008, 06:31:05 PM »
Thanks for the correction, FA. 

Offline dmitri

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #251 on: February 05, 2008, 10:02:45 AM »
Thanks for your clarification Ms. Davidson. I guess people only raised the issues you now decide to delete because the Forum Administrator was actually commenting on them.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #252 on: February 05, 2008, 04:26:37 PM »
Thanks for your clarification Ms. Davidson. I guess people only raised the issues you now decide to delete because the Forum Administrator was actually commenting on them.

I have reported your remarks to the Forum Administrator.

I was very clear that posters should stay on topic.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #253 on: February 27, 2008, 08:39:22 AM »
I rarely wander into this section, but in light of recent forum drama, I have a question:

What is it about Anna Anderson that provokes such strong and varied reactions?

As someone who's more or less indifferent to the AA case, I'm truly curious. What is it about her that makes people willing to devote hundreds of hours and thousands of posts to proving or disproving her claim? How does she manage to evoke such passion from both sides of the argument? Most of all, why can't anyone seem to agree to disagree -- what harm does it do if someone chooses to believe the "wrong" side of the case?




I'd very much appreciate it if we could PLEASE try not to turn this into another debate about the woman's identity. I don't want to know why you're on whichever side of the case -- I only want to know why you feel so strongly about her in general.
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Offline Laura Mabee

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Re: Anastasia Claimant - Anna Anderson a.k.a Franziska Schanzkowska Part 6
« Reply #254 on: February 27, 2008, 10:01:06 AM »
Fascinating thread Sarushka!
I too am in the camp of indifference, so this will be an interesting thread to follow.