Author Topic: Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2  (Read 74210 times)

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Malenkaya

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #255 on: March 26, 2005, 04:10:01 PM »
Quote
The one on our left appears to be completely visible. You can see the wire and the ear where it's pierced.  The one on the right is not visible for some reason.


Isn't this the photo that had been retouched so many times?  I thought the person who did it mistook stuff in the background for earrings, and "filled them in" when really she wasn't wearing earrings at all.  

This is the photo that was being worked with, that resulted in the one with the earrings:



Look under her right ear - I think that spot was mistaken for an earrring, which is why the artist of the other photo added earrings to her in that version.  What was meant to be clarification turned out to be a mistake.  I don't know how else to explain it - it's the same photo - how can she not being wearing earrings in one, but can be in the other?  They were added by the touch up artist.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Malenkaya »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #256 on: March 27, 2005, 07:10:55 PM »
Over on the photo thread, we're talking about which photo was un-touched.  I thought it was the one above.  So, hold off on the comments about piereced ears until I discover if this is the one un-touched or if an artist/someone drew in the earring.

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #257 on: March 28, 2005, 02:47:42 PM »


This above is said to be the original which is burry.

Was their changes in the copy of the original photo of FS?  Evidently some people think there was.  If you look at the one above in my post, there does appear to be changes.  The earring on the right ear.  The shade around the jaw line....

If there was someone who changed the copy of the original, I can see why the person who placed/composed/saw or thought they saw the earrings in the other photo [one above in my post] but why didn't they place it on the left ear, too?  

Yep, one question leads to another question.

I'll leave the earring discussion as another one of those "unknows" unless I can see what the original photograph copy [one not enlarged] before I state my opinion.

As usually, there is never anything clear cut about comparisons between AA and FS.

Did AA have pierced ears?

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #258 on: March 28, 2005, 03:12:32 PM »
I don't see any mark on the photo which would tell me that AA had pierced ear but that doesn't mean she didn't have pierced ears.

Quote

...[in part]...

... so I am posting these pics from the "In search of..." documentary  :D

AA's right ear:
 

...


Someone out there probably knows the answer.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #259 on: April 07, 2005, 10:33:48 AM »
Or, it could have been the other way around.  AA had pierced ears and FS did not.

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Hey,

Just wanted to add that it was Franziska's brother that stated his sister didnt have pierced ears-this was noted as a difference between Anna and his sister.  

Tim  
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #260 on: April 07, 2005, 11:59:11 AM »
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Or, it could have been the other way around.  AA had pierced ears and FS did not.



In that case, it means even less than nothing. She could have gotten them pierced at any time, even the day she jumped off the bridge.



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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #261 on: April 07, 2005, 12:09:09 PM »
As I said before, pierced ears can grow back closed in just a few years (it happened to my grandmother)...this discussion of whether or not either one had them or didn't is essentially meaningless.


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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #262 on: April 07, 2005, 12:17:50 PM »
Yes,  it's possible, FS could have had her ears pierced between Dec. holiday when she saw her family and up to the day the Berlin police claimed she was murdered by Grossmann.

Did AA have pierced ears?

AGRBer
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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jaa

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #263 on: April 13, 2005, 11:07:00 AM »
I just found out there is a book on ear identification to be published sometime this year:
The Forensic Ear, edited by Rutty G.N, Swift B, Abbas A. Humana press, New York.

Professor Rutty is Head of the Forensic Pathology Unit at the University of Leicester. He worked with a British software vendor in developing the first computer-based system for ear identification.
http://www.findbiometrics.com/Pages/feature%20articles/earprint.html

jaa

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #264 on: July 15, 2005, 12:43:52 PM »
There is more news on ear identification technology (see full article below). New methods for biometric ear identification are being developed by researchers at the University of Southampton. The researchers, using current standards and a database of 63 subjects, have a 99.2% accuracy rate with their new methods. They are also developing new landmarks for measurements. According to a biometrics expert at the University of Southampton, "There are more fixed features available in an ear than we have been measuring." The methods that have been used to compare AA's ear with AN's ear may or may not be superseded by these new methods.

I'll try to explain biometrics, but if this is confusing, please ask and I'll try again. If anyone's interested, I can also provide a bit of general technical background; I'm familiar with some of the algorithms (computer programming math formulas) used in biometrics, but not as they're applied in biometric applications.

There are two basic techniques used for photographic comparisons: anthroscopy and anthropometrics. Anthroscopy is visual assessment and comparing features. Anthropometrics is measurement, and its accuracy depends on measurement tools and methods. Forensic anthropologists use both anthroscopy and anthropometrics to make photographic comparisons.

Biometrics is the use of the computer as a fast and accurate measurement tool for anthropometry. Biometric technologies are used for fingerprint identification, retinal and iris identification, and facial recognition systems.

A summary of the current status of ear identification in biometrics and forensic science:

- the National Training Center for Scientific Support for Crime Investigation in the U.K. is developing an database of several thousand samples. This will be the first statistical proof that ears are unique.

- The first computerized system for ear identification has recently been developed by Professor Guy Rutty, Head of the Forensic Pathology Unit at the University of Leicester, working with a software developer.

- New methods for biometric ear identification are being developed. The article about this follows:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7672

Ear biometrics may beat face recognition

   * 16:09 14 July 2005
   * NewScientist.com news service
   * Duncan Graham-Rowe

A new type of ear-shape analysis could see ear biometrics surpass face recognition as a way of automatically identifying people, claim the UK researchers developing the system.

The technique could be used to identify people from CCTV footage, or incorporated into cellphones to identify the user, says Mark Nixon, a biometrics expert at the University of Southampton.

Ears are remarkably consistent, he says. Unlike faces, they do not change shape with different expressions or age, and remain fixed in the middle of the side of the head against a predictable background. “Hair is a problem,” Nixon admits. “But that might be solved by using infrared images.”

In an initial small-scale study involving 63 subjects – all taken from a database of face profiles – Nixon and his colleague David Hurley found their method to be 99.2% accurate.

This is a great starting point, says Nixon, but in theory the method could be greatly improved. “There are more fixed features available in an ear than we have been measuring,” he says.

Order of magnitude

Much larger populations are needed to determine how reliably it could be implemented. But an initial analysis of the decidability index – a measure of how similar or dissimilar each of the ears were – indicates how unique an individual ear might be.

They found that this index was an order of magnitude greater than for face analysis, but not as large as for iris biometrics.

Ears have been used to identify people before now, but other methods have used an approach similar to face recognition. This involves extracting key features, such as the position of the nose and eyes – or in the case of the ear, where the channels lie. These are then represented as a vector, describing where features appear in relation to each other.

The new approach instead captures the shape of the ear as a whole and represents this in code, allowing the whole ear shape to be compared.

Ear print

But despite the promising results they may have a job convincing people. In 1998 an ear print left on a window led to the conviction of Mark Dallagher for murdering a 94-year-old woman.

This conviction, however, was overturned in January 2004 because the evidence relating to the ear print was found to be flawed. But Nixon notes that the original evidence was not, strictly speaking, biometric - it relied on a subjective opinion of an ear expert.

The results of their study are due to be published in Computer Vision and Image Understanding.

lexi4

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #265 on: July 15, 2005, 11:05:00 PM »
I looked at those photos posted here (Marie and AA) and I can't see a match. What am I missing????

jaa

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #266 on: July 16, 2005, 01:25:21 PM »
The photo of Maries's ear was an error in a documentary film. Filmmaking is an expensive and complex collaboratory effort, involving detailed planning, financing, budgeting, scheduling, and a variety of specialized technical and artistic skills. Errors are common in documentaries because they are basically low-budget independent films.

Experts found a match between AA's and Anastasia's right ear, using measurements (anthropometrics) and detailed visual examination (anthroscopy).

The new biometric ear id method accurately collects the points needed for a specific type of spline curve, a mathematical description of the shape of the ear. This technology was not available at the time of the AA/AN ear comparisons. Until very recently, experts had to rely on overlays and manual measuring tools such as dividers and scales.

lexi4

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #267 on: July 16, 2005, 06:14:35 PM »
So do we have pictures of AN's ear to compare with AA? It seems the ones I can see on this thread are pretty meaningless if it is Marie and AA.

Offline Lanie

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #268 on: July 16, 2005, 06:17:11 PM »
I sent Jeremy a picture of a comparison of AA and AN's ears and you can see differences.  I don't know if I have it on my hard-drive anymore but I'll look.  Jeremy, do you still have it?  It was from some German report thing I found on GettyImages.com forever ago...

lexi4

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Re: Anna Anderson - Physical Evidence and DNA #2
« Reply #269 on: July 16, 2005, 06:22:46 PM »
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I sent Jeremy a picture of a comparison of AA and AN's ears and you can see differences.  I don't know if I have it on my hard-drive anymore but I'll look.  Jeremy, do you still have it?  It was from some German report thing I found on GettyImages.com forever ago...


Thank you Lanie. I would appreciate that.