Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #2

[Malenkaya]

Malenkaya, I'm sorry about your miscarriage

Thank you.  I didn't want to bring it up, but once the talk turned to how the doctors knew what they did, it made me think of things my doctor had said to me.  And I ended up learning something new in the process.

[Annie]

Thank you.  I didn't want to bring it up, but once the talk turned to how the doctors knew what they did, it made me think of things my doctor had said to me.  And I ended up learning something new in the process.

I also had one at about 8 weeks, and it was sad. Thanks for sharing your experience with us in the context of the discussion even though it's not a good  memory.

[Abby]

Many women may not even realize that they are pregnant at two months yet. Perhaps FS had an abortion at 4 or even 5 months, it has been known to happen, and the pregnancy may not have been so obvious at that point yet... At that point, the cervix would probably show signs of having given birth.

In any case, we will never know, I suppose. And unless we can find the child Alexander and do the DNA testing that shows he is AA's son, then we will never really know about that either....

Oh, if FS had an abortion it must have been so crude...I cringe to think of the methods that existed for abortions in the early 1900's If this is indeed what FS did then it would have left quite a bit of scarring.

[Malenkaya]

I also had one at about 8 weeks, and it was sad. Thanks for sharing your experience with us in the context of the discussion even though it's not a good  memory.

I'm sorry for your loss as well.  I won't get into my personal life here (that's not what this board is for) but as sad as it was, under the circumstances, it turned out to be a good thing.  Or at least that's what I've been told.

Oh, if FS had an abortion it must have been so crude...I cringe to think of the methods that existed for abortions in the early 1900's If this is indeed what FS did then it would have left quite a bit of scarring.

I was thinking this too.  I can't even imagine what the procedure must have been like in those days.  I would think the doctors would have definitely been able to tell if an abortion had been performed.

Anastasia

[helenazar]

 I would think the doctors would have definitely been able to tell if an abortion had been performed.

Yes, that's a good point. So the only other possibilities would be is that she either had a child, had a later miscarriage or neither.

[Kransnoeselo]

Hey everyone- about the Doctor's visit- A close friend of Jack and Anastasia Manahan (AA) told me that he went to Germany (in the 1970's) on Jack's bequest to find information regarding his wife's claim to be Anastasia.  He met with Baron Ulrich von Genianth who had been in charge of AA's finances when she lived in the black forest.  He was the one who took her to see a physician who (probably in the 1950's) examined AA and said conclusively that she had bore a child.  

Hope that helps

Tim

[Mgmstl]

I am glad that you ladies asked these questions among yourselves, I apologize, but I didn't want offend anyone with my thoughts of late term miscarriage, abortion, that sort of thing.  Our minds are all working on the same path.

However I am curious as to if this issue came to light during that courtcase about there being evidence that she gave birth.  Pardon me if I am a bit behind on the discussion today, but I have been busy.

[Denise]

Hey everyone- about the Doctor's visit- A close friend of Jack and Anastasia Manahan (AA) told me that he went to Germany (in the 1970's) on Jack's bequest to find information regarding his wife's claim to be Anastasia.  He met with Baron Ulrich von Genianth who had been in charge of AA's finances when she lived in the black forest.  He was the one who took her to see a physician who (probably in the 1950's) examined AA and said conclusively that she had bore a child.  

Hope that helps

Tim

Thanks Tim!  That gives us dates to go by.  At last some concrete info on the doctor's exam....

[helenazar]

Thanks, Tim, for that info. Yes, it would be interesting to find out to what extent this medical info about AA and FS was mentioned in court. If they had some physician testimonies about this, it could have been pretty good evidence against AA and FS being the same person. Except that I am not sure if they would delve so deeply into this at the time because these court proceedings were more about trying to figure out if AA was Anastasia rather than if she was or was not FS.... Yes, Penny, please let us know what the court transcripts say about that part, when you get the chance.  

[AGRBear]

Over on Annie's new thread about Anna Anderson's story,  Penny  posted:

>>It is possible also that von Kleist added some information -- for instance, his version of the story states that her son, Alexander, was born in Bucharest on 5 December 1918.<<

AGRBear

[Mgmstl]

I think it is interesting that  this wasn't brought out until her marriage to Manahan, if that is indeed the case.

[helenazar]

Why did von Kleist (or AA) wait so long to spill the info about Alexander's date and place of birth?

[helenazar]

I don't think von Kleist DID wait any length of time.  The story was given to Zenaida Tolstoy in the summer of 1922.  She gave it to von Kleist directly, and this is the story he circulated -- though he didn't know the half of it.  Over the next six or seven years, AA added much more detail to her story.  See Pter Kurth's Chapter 2, called, funnily enough, "The Story."

Thanks, I'll take a look. I am wondering, since there is a good amount of detail here about the birth's time and location, has anyone ever tried to track down this child?

[Annie]

Does anyone know why AA never had another child? Was it because she just never had relations, or because she was unable due to the birth (or miscarriage or abortion) she suffered earlier, or perhaps she was afraid if she had one it could be genetically traced to her family? (sure there was no DNA test in those days but there were blood tests and other factors)

[helenazar]

Does anyone know why AA never had another child? Was it because she just never had relations, or because she was unable due to the birth (or miscarriage or abortion) she suffered earlier, or perhaps she was afraid if she had one it could be genetically traced to her family? (sure there was no DNA test in those days but there were blood tests and other factors)

I don't know if she was ever involved with any man after her discharge from the mental hospital. You never really hear about that... And I think her marriage to Manahan was more something of a convenience marriage, so that she could stay in the US.