Author Topic: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings  (Read 34058 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline griffh

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2005, 07:13:53 PM »
Bluetoria have you ever read the book by Anthony Lampton, "Elizabeth and Alexandra"?  

I am not sure that the book is much more than an historic novel in the end but I suppose it is based on some facts.  Lampton acknowledges the help of several titled people including Princess Paul of Yugoslavia, the Archduchess Ferdinand of Austria, and Prince Alexander Romanoff for their help in writing the book.  I have not read too much of it but it seems rather interesting.  

Lampton chronicles Ella's close friendship with Zenaïde Youssoupoff as someone who helped smooth over the harsh treatment that Ella often received from Serge.  Lampton also talks about some kind of strange involvement with some shadowy man who wrote her anonymous letters and was opposed to Serge's anti-Semitic practices.  I was so shocked that Serge was so like Hitler.  When he became Governor-General of Moscow he banished all the Jewish population.  He was such a tormented man.  I often wondered if Ella life of service was a quiet apology for Serge’s cruelty.  The book says that in spite of his anti-Semitism he used Jewish youth for his pleasure.  So you can see that the book is pretty wild in its accusations, though the expulsion of Jews is accurate I believe.  

Lampton also says that Ella was at one time drawn to John of Tobolsk but that he was too rough and left her unimpressed or something like that.  I really haven’t read too much more but will try to finish the book to see how he handles Ella’s relationship with Alix.  I have always had the impression the Ella was much closer to Victoria and that they shared similar political views, but I can’t tell you where on earth I got that idea.  

Remember too that Ella was capable of being very cold and unfeeling even toward children as the GD Marie Pavlovna the younger points out.  And she did go through a phase after she was married of being something of a clothes horse and changing her gowns and jewel twice during parties so that she could wear all her pretty things and show them off.  Ella grew up a lot after Serge was blown to pieces.  I am sure that Ella could be very scary in those days before 1905 and before her life experiences soften and elevated her character, though she was always exquisite and refined.   Queen Marie of Romania speaks about the delicate beauty of Ella and said that she moved with such grace that it could move one to tears.  

The other thing that is interesting is this problem of older sisters being relegated to a secondary position by younger sisters who their ruler.  One of the many objections that Queen Victoria had against Alix marrying Nicky was this very problem.  She stated in a letter that such a situation had often ruined family relations.    

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2005, 07:17:12 PM »
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry Griff!
I hate, loathe, detest that book. I think it the most appalling book ever written!
SORRY Griff...but don't believe a word of it!

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2005, 07:23:56 PM »
Sorry Griff...I can't tell you how much I hate that book! But tomorrow (because it's very late here now) I'll read what you wrote more dispassionately, if that's okay...and answer less hysterically! ;)
Good night!

Offline griffh

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2005, 05:23:53 PM »
Bluetoria, I feel just like you do.  I tried to continue reading it last night but I had to stop.  griff

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2005, 05:28:17 PM »
Oh Griff, I'm sorry...I promised I would explain myself & I forgot...sorry :-[
I find it hard to write about that book without becoming extremely angry...as I wrote on another thread it is the ONLY book I have ever readwhich I literally tore into tiny shreds in anger. I hated the stereo-typical portrayal of Serge as some kind of Gothic sadist, whipping everyone. I thought the author seemed to be merely exploiting his own sexual fantasies & it disgusted me.
I hated, still more, the pathetic portrayal of Ella as a nervous & impatient but passive creature who spent her whole life being annoyed by everyone. I thought it was absoluely disgusting the whole book!
So I'm glad you agree ;)

Offline griffh

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 534
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2005, 05:28:16 PM »
You know Bluetoria I think that from what I have read of your contributions in threads that we have shared ideas in and other threads I have read where you have contributed a perspective, I would say that you have an inner sense of Alix that is extremely well balanced and very fair and the same with Ella.  You don't tend to idealize either woman but you always take us to a place where we can see the motivation of a  loving mother and wife.  I think it is only natural for individuals of integrity like yourself to call out a protest when something is not right.  

I make so many mistakes, as you know from the threads that we share (ie Queen Mary's christening the wrong ocean liner with the wrong accent, not to mention my flubs with Rasputin knife wounds, etc.) that I don't mind strong responses as I learn to be more disciplined and careful.

You know the thing about Lampston is that he seems less interested in really describing the complexity of the people he is writing about than he is in describing the beautiful objects that surrounded them.  I think he was probably mislead by a great deal of "high gossip."  I do hope that I am not being too uncharitable in terms of Mr. Lampston's contribution.    

Hey Bluetoria guess what?  I took your advise and started a thread inquiring about the Princess in my family and someone named Bear has directed me to a website where I can try to find out which Galitizin married my Aunty's grandfather's first wife.  

You know I was pondering how I wrote about how frieghtened I have always been of this fascinating family that I am a part of, and I have described some rather harsh moments but I truely love and respect all these amazing individuals whether or not I was treated as something more than a nameless shadow.  
 

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2005, 05:50:51 PM »
Quote
 I think it is only natural for individuals of integrity like yourself to call out a protest when something is not right.  

I make so many mistakes, as you know from the threads that we share (ie Queen Mary's christening the wrong ocean liner with the wrong accent, not to mention my flubs with Rasputin knife wounds, etc.) that I don't mind strong responses as I learn to be more disciplined and careful.

Hey Bluetoria guess what?  I took your advise and started a thread inquiring about the Princess in my family and someone named Bear has directed me to a website where I can try to find out which Galitizin married my Aunty's grandfather's first wife.  

You know I was pondering how I wrote about how frieghtened I have always been of this fascinating family that I am a part of, and I have described some rather harsh moments but I truely love and respect all these amazing individuals whether or not I was treated as something more than a nameless shadow.  
  


Griff  :) Thank you for your very kind words...I'm afraid I'm very often wrong about things! As for your mistakes...EVERYONE makes mistakes. There's a great quotation but I forget who by, "The person who admits his mistake is really saying that he is wiser today than he was yesterday."  ;)
I really did, as I think I made clear  :) feel SO strongly about that book because I felt it totally misrepresented Ella, whom I admire as a person and revere deeply as a saint.
I'm glad you're pursuing your family history (please keep sharing it with us!) I never doubted for a moment that you loved them...and as for being a nameless shadow I'm sure you are FAR MORE than that.
(I've felt like that too sometimes  ;)...but you know (from what you wrote on another thread) that 'every hair on your head has been counted', you are worth more 'than hundreds of sparrows' of which not one if lost 'without your Heavenly Father's consent' and you have a soul that cost the blood of a God. So you're hardly a nameless shadow!
I didn't mean that to sermonize, it's just what I like to think of when I feel as you described  :)

Offline GD Alexandra

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
  • "We had a beautiful dream and that was all..."
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2005, 01:08:57 PM »
I know it's out of topic but I'm just getting to know these sisters, Do Alix & Ella were twins?  ???I mean they are so similar and if they aren't which one is the oldest?  ???I beleive they had other sisters in which order do they were born? ??? :-/

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2005, 01:23:27 PM »
Hello, Alexanastasia!  :)
No they were not twins.
Victoria was their eldest sister (born in 1863)
Then Ella (born 1864)
Then Irene (born 1866)
Then Alix (born 1872)
and May (born 1874 & died in 1878.)

There is a lot more information about them under the 'Hesse-Darmstadts' & on the 'Princesses of Hesse' thread.  :)

Offline GD Alexandra

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
  • "We had a beautiful dream and that was all..."
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2005, 03:42:58 PM »
Thanks a lot for that info  :D I'll check those files.

bluetoria

  • Guest
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2005, 03:51:01 PM »
My pleasure  :) & yes, do...there is so much information there about each of them individually, too!

Offline Alexandra

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 106
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2005, 10:22:09 PM »
This is an excellent thread, and a comparable one might be to consider the sisters' relationship with their 'big' sister, Victoria ... grandmother of HRH The Duke of Edinburgh... .
I revere both Alexandra and Elizabeth as Saints, and pray to them as such ... sometimes, the advice I get on a particular issue is, 'Talk to my sister about that - she knows more about it than I do.' In life, however, my heart goes out to them both, because it must have been so hard for Ella to watch Alix in the toils of such an individual as Rasputin, and to be able to do nothing at all to warn her of the very real dangers of such an association. Families often do rupture along just such lines: one member thinks well of someone whom another member sees as the next thing to human refuse, and when religion is so important as it was to these sisters, that the difference should have come about over one who represented himself along religious lines makes it all the more sad. I have experienced something like this, although indirectly, and it is terrible for the people involved. I do not think that Ella and Alix eve stopped loving one another, and the fact that they continued to correspond after 1917 speaks well for them both.
A propos again of Mouchanow, if I may: it was Bob who told me, many months ago, that this book is a fake. But I do not know the rest of the story! If someone does, will you please tell us?
I believe that the  'Elizaveta' who signed the petition for clemency to Dmitri Pavlovich was the widow of 'KR,' Grand Duke Konstantine.

Offline hikaru

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1123
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2005, 11:36:42 AM »
I think that we could understand something about Alexandra's relationship with her relatives etc by analizing her notebook "Easter Eggs for the family and friends" where she did write annually what eggs and eggs of what price she gave to her relatives and friends ( the price of the eggs are quite different)

Offline anna

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 921
    • View Profile
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2005, 04:37:52 PM »
hikaru, I've never heard of such a notebook. Are there excerpts to be found is some book?

Anna


Watch your thoughts, they become words. Watch your words, they become actions.
Watch your actions, they become habits.
Watch your habits, they become character. Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

NAAOTMA

  • Guest
Re: Alix & Ella & the Hessian Siblings
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2005, 07:28:57 PM »
Yes, Hikaru, please do tell us more about the Easter Egg book! And many thanks to all for such a fascinating thread.