Author Topic: Rasputin's "Powers" and His Family Name.  (Read 55502 times)

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Offline brendan

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #120 on: January 28, 2005, 02:54:12 AM »
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I don't think I have ever seen ones with masonic symbols, but unfortunately there does seem to be a number of 'icons' both Russian and Greek that I have seen depicting God the Father. I am not sure why they have been made.


I know of a number of Icons that were painted in Russia post revolution that contain these markings, but as for how long this has been going on, I havent a clue. I've even seen masonic symbols  on the backs of Priests vestments over there, usually the "all seeing eye".Also, Im not sure why, but all the Icons I've seen depicting God in a human state, were usually done 50 or so years ago.
Anyone else out there know what were talking about?

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #121 on: January 28, 2005, 07:57:17 AM »
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Judging from the books Ive read on Rasputin, the word novikh(or novy) means "new" or "newcomer".  I read in one book that Alexei was the first to refer to him as this because of the many healers who had been brought to the palace before Grigory to attempt to treat his disease. Another book said both Nicholas and Alexandra  thought the name Rasputin was a terrible misrepresentation of his character, and talked him into changing it to Novy-Rasputin.
Ive also read many interpretations of the meaning of the name Rasputin. One book I read said that It was common fo many people of that region to not have last names, the name rasputin was given to Grigory's father because he wasnt born in Pokrovskoe. This was of course assuming the name means "crossroads".  Its also said to mean "spring" or "autumn period". However,  I think the general consensus is that it means "good for nothing person " or "debached one", and he was probably born with the name.


Yes, I read all of the above interpretations too at one time or another. One thing is for sure: everyone seems very confused about his name!  ;)

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #122 on: January 28, 2005, 10:45:27 AM »
There need not be any confusion. Spridovitch had all the Okhrana investigation materials into Rasputin and his background. This is FIRST HAND source material. Remember all the government and church birth records and marriage records were all intact at that point.
From "Raspoutine"
"The family name of Rasputin is quite widespread in Occidental Siberia and among those bearing that name there are many who are unrelated by parental ties."

"In the village (of Pokrovskoe) lived Grigori's parents: his father, the peasant Efim Andreievich Rasputin and his mother Anna Egorovna.  His father tilled the soil and was also experienced as a carriage driver. His mother concerned herself with tending the house. For Siberia, they were not poor peasants, but neither were they rich."  Spiridovitch goes on to describe the house the family owned in great detail, so the must also have been property ownership and tax records.  IF there was another family name, surely Spiridovitch would have known of it.

I can state with much certainty that Carrolly Erikson was incorrect in her statement.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #123 on: January 28, 2005, 11:00:50 AM »
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I can state with much certainty that Carrolly Erikson was incorrect in her statement.

I have absolutely no problem with this. I was just repeating what I read and letting you know my source  :)


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"The family name of Rasputin is quite widespread in Occidental Siberia...
  Exactly what I said above...  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #124 on: January 28, 2005, 11:03:26 AM »
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Helen,
I don't know where you got that information. According to Spirdovitch's bio the family name was Rasputin, and he was born with that name, as was his brother.
Where did you find that about him not being born Grigory Efimovich Rasputin? There is no mention in Spiridovitch's bio of any other family name.

I have read two different versions of the story that completely contradict each other. If I'm not mistaken, it was Radzinsky who said his real name was Rasputin, later changed to Noviy (not Novykh) because Alexandra didn't want the holy man to have such a terrible last name, which as mentioned above comes from the same root as the word debauchery in Russian. The other version, whose source I don't remember, said that his real name was Noviy. Rasputin was a nickname given to him by the people of the vilolage which just stuck.
I tend to agree with Radzinsky's explanation, unless someone comes up with good evidence to the contrary.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Johnny »
Татьяна: Кто ты - мой ангел ли хранитель?

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #125 on: January 28, 2005, 11:08:54 AM »
Either way is fine with me. But one thing for sure: the name did not come from the name of his village.

Offline brendan

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #126 on: January 28, 2005, 12:21:13 PM »
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Either way is fine with me. But one thing for sure: the name did not come from the name of his village.


I didnt mean that the name of his village was called Rasputin, I meant the type of village he was from was commonly refered to as that. Like I said though, that was just one of the many explanations Ive read.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #127 on: January 28, 2005, 02:21:48 PM »
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I didnt mean that the name type of village he was from was commonly refered to as that...  


brendan, what do you mean by the "type of a village"?  ???

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #128 on: January 28, 2005, 09:13:54 PM »
    I have read all sorts of connections to the derevation of Rasputin's name from "the place where the paths meet" to the "Disolute" ...
   And at this point I wonder if we can ever be sure... Perhaps it originally was a sarcastic remark --"Those hard working teetotalers - they never get into trouble...yeah they're the "Rasputins" all right!"

rskkiya

Offline Olga

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #129 on: January 29, 2005, 04:59:49 AM »
Gould, are you referring to symbols of Freemasonry?

I'd be more inclined to trust Spiridovich's word than Radzinsky's.

Offline Johnny

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th saying the same thing.Re: Rasputin
« Reply #130 on: January 29, 2005, 07:50:44 AM »
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I'd be more inclined to trust Spiridovich's word than Radzinsky's.
???
In this case it doesn't matter whom you trust more, because they are both saying the same thing. ;D
Татьяна: Кто ты - мой ангел ли хранитель?

Offline brendan

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #131 on: January 29, 2005, 01:27:17 PM »
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brendan, what do you mean by the "type of a village"?  ???


I lied.
I thought I remembered hearing that it refered to what would be the Russian equivilant to an un-incorporated town in America. But in M. Rasputins book she says it was a term given to the people in her village that meant, "people living at the parting of the roads" (from Tiouman to Tobolsk.).

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #132 on: January 29, 2005, 01:38:30 PM »
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... a term given to the people in her village that meant, "people living at the parting of the roads"


Would that be kind of like "crossroads"?  ;)

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #133 on: January 31, 2005, 03:51:18 PM »
I've only seen the 'all-seeing eye' at one Church - the Greek one in Wellington. I have no idea if that is common in Greek Churches or not, but I've never seen it in Russian ones.

There does seem to be a tradition of painting the Trinity (not as the angels visiting Abraham symbolically representing the Triune God, but as Father Son and Holy Spirit in the form of a dove) from a century or two ago. I don't like it, and it seems wrong to be portraying God the Father, as no one has seen Him. I am sure Brendan can give a better and clearer explaination as to why we can not portray the Father in iconography.

Offline brendan

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #134 on: February 02, 2005, 01:10:03 AM »
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I've only seen the 'all-seeing eye' at one Church - the Greek one in Wellington. I have no idea if that is common in Greek Churches or not, but I've never seen it in Russian ones..


"The doctrines of Freemasonry are contrary and opposed to the doctrines of Christianity..."
From The Rudder, Orthodox Christian Education Society, Chicago, p. 285-86]  

"The removal of the name of Jesus and references to Him in Bible verses used in the ritual are "slight but necessary modifications." (Albert Mackey, "Masonic Ritualist." p. 272)


 I brought up free-masons/Icons Just to give an example of how many Icons you see nowadays may not be the real thing. Im not criticising anyones artistic abuility, just stating a fact.

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There does seem to be a tradition of painting the Trinity (not as the angels visiting Abraham symbolically representing the Triune God, but as Father Son and Holy Spirit in the form of a dove) from a century or two ago. I don't like it, and it seems wrong to be portraying God the Father, as no one has seen Him. I am sure Brendan can give a better and clearer explaination as to why we can not portray the Father in iconography.


Traditional Orthodox iconographic rules state that God the Father is NOT to be represented in any way. Therefore, the representation of the Father as the "Ancient of Days" is not permitted, even though some iconographers do take their liberties.
Although the depiction of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove is acceptable in Orthodox iconography in general, the Russian "Stoglav" Council or "or the 100 Chapters" actually forbade the depiction of the Third Person of the Trinity in this way.
The scriptural references to the Holy Spirit in the New Testament descending upon Christ at His Baptism (the Theophany) state that His descent was similar to that of a dove descending - rather than an emphatic statement that the Spirit appeared as a dove itself.
Only the icon of the Old Testament Trinity, "Abraham's Hospitality" portrays all Three Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity as Angels - as scripture says They appeared to our Forefather under the Oaks of Mamre .