Author Topic: Rasputin's "Powers" and His Family Name.  (Read 54156 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tonya M

  • Guest
Rasputin's "Powers" and His Family Name.
« on: February 17, 2004, 02:23:21 PM »
I have a question when Iwas learning about Rasputin in a world civilization course. I was told that Rasputin believed that his healing powers could not be obtained unless he slept with a woman. Is this true
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 03:05:40 PM by Alixz »

Offline Katharina

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Rasputin's healing powers
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2004, 02:37:46 AM »
Dear Tonya,

I do not think so, not at all!
This statement probably reveals your teacher's character more than Rasputin's.
Were you told by a male or a female person?

Have you ever thought of Rasputin as a poor sinner?  "Of course not!" you might answer.
But now have a look at what two contemporaries noted:

(Sophie Buxhoeveden)
"After each bout his contrition was equally extreme and was followed by a renewal of religious ardour. His soul seemed to be divided into two parts: the one a kind of heaven and the other a kind of hell, in each of which he seemed to dwell in turn."

(Pierre Gilliard)
"It is true that he showed the greatest contrition for his wrongdoings, but that did not prevent him from continuing them."

Sometimes you may wish things to be completely black or white but it is not as easy as that. In my opinion Rasputin was neither a nearly immortal monster nor possessed by the devil.

Maybe Rasputin truly believed in God.
In order to obtain forgiveness you have to be penitent. Maybe that's what Rasputin actually was although it seems as if he did not change his behavior.

Though praying fervently Alexandra had the feeling that God did not listen to her. According to the tsarina Rasputin acted as a kind of intercessor. She considered him a kind of scapegoat or substitute sinner, which - I admit - was on the other hand a pretty fine excuse for any misconduct.

I am quite sure Rasputin did not believe in human abilities to actually heal people. In his and in Alexandra's opinion it was the Almighty's part to grant salvation.

That doesn't match with the theory you refer to.

Katharina

tonya m

  • Guest
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2004, 04:56:33 PM »
Dear Kathrina,
I didn't mean ( did rasputin gain his healing powers through sex) What I meant was Not looking at is from a religous point of view only looking it from a history point of view He was said to have requested several women companions to enable him to have the POWER to heal these people though I believe that Rasputin didn't get that power from god because of his questioned dark beliefs


Offline 3710

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Rasputin
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2004, 02:47:28 AM »
But there is a new (fairly) biograthy of Rasputin, written by (much critisized here) Radzinsky. And he sounds if not sympathetic, but at least trying to understand his charachter.
Galina

Offline Greg_King

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
    • Atlantis Magazine
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2004, 03:48:49 AM »
Quote
But there is a new (fairly) biograthy of Rasputin, written by (much critisized here) Radzinsky. And he sounds if not sympathetic, but at least trying to understand his charachter.
Galina


At the risk of coming off a bit hard: Radzinsky's book on Rasputin is a disappointment in every way.  His so-called new information has been available in published form since the 1920s-he just got hold of the original missing depositions.  I have real problems with that book-from his grotesque characterizations of so many people, his lack of understanding about the religious aspects of Rasputin's life, background, etc., his picture of Rasputin at the height of his power and influence, etc.  Radzinsky clearly approached the book as a mystery story, interjecting himself into its telling, expending pages asking questions that he then answered 10 pages later and whose answers were in any case well known, and trying to throw in as much scandal and gossip as he seemed to find (from the Khlysty accusations to the nonsense about Anna Vyrubova being a lesbian, and hinting that Alix and Rasputin may have had an affair).  No, I'm sorry, but his so-called "Last Word" just isn't.  I like him (Radzinsky) on a personal level and have spent some time with him, but with this book he lost me.

Greg King

Offline 3710

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2004, 04:17:16 AM »
I expected you would say something like that, Greg.
There is a difference between a ''historian'' and  ''writer writting on historical subject'', as R. calles himself.
He did not invent the Khlusty line (or Anna's lesbian tendencies), though. I have heard it before. And he does not actually say: ''this is the  true as it was'', he just merely suggesting, that it could be the case.
Anyway, Radzinky has a very wise responce to his critics ''You are right''.
Let him ''be'', please! :) His book is not the worst thing ever written about of Rasputin.
G.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 3710 »

Offline BobAtchison

  • Moderator
  • Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
    • The Alexander Palace
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2004, 08:38:57 AM »
I agree with Greg - I just reread Radzinsky's book on Rasputin and it amazes me how he claims that he discovered all of these things that have been in plain view for years.

The only part I found really interesting was how he was able to inject Vera Karalli into the story.  She is a very interesting figure to me.

Also I have nothing but contempt for his sensationalism of sexual rumours about Alexandra and Vyrubova- that he knows not to be true - in order to get publicity and sell books.

Bob

Offline Louise

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
    • View Profile
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2004, 09:58:11 AM »
There is a good reason that Radzinsky's book is critisized, and it is the main reason that I didn't or won't add this book to my collection.

When reading the reviews for this book, I read that he wrote/strongly implied that the Empress and Rasputin had an affair. To me that is blasphamie.

Anyone with half a wit knows that Alix was devoted to her husband and to have an affair was not in her character. That Radzinsky would stoop to this level to sell his book, made me lose all respect for him.

Had his book on Rasputin been written 50 years ago, with the rumours still fairly fresh about the Empress, I would have taken it with a grain of salt. However, to write such a book in this day and age with what we know now is ludicrous.

Louise
The sign of a sick mind is studying for a final exam and thinking it's the

RobMoshein

  • Guest
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2004, 10:09:40 AM »
A bit of historical fact will help put this claim into perspective.

NO ONE came to the Alexander Palace without first being stopped by the Palace police at the gate, and noted into the records. NO ONE saw the Emperor or Empress without knowledge and permission of Freedericks, period. Dont forget that Baron Freedericks despised Rasputin. Palace records show (as I recall without checking the exact number) that Rasputin came to the Palace seven times only, and the longest audience was 20 minutes. Also, he never came to the Palace when Nicholas was not there (the Empress never received a male when Nicholas was not in the Palace).

Outside of the Palace, Alexandra was watched 24/7 by Spridovitch's secret police guard, wherever she went.  The police knew every single person who came into contact with her, and she would NEVER have had the opportunity to be alone with Rasputin ever. Alexandra loathed this surveillance and complained often about it, but Nicholas ordered that it be maintained despite her protests.

This goes for the alleged "secret lover" in the other thread. Just not possible.

Offline 3710

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2004, 09:26:27 AM »
You made me worry that I do not understand plain Russian any more :)
Re-read ''Rasputin'' By Radzinsky over weekend, half way through at the moment -  still no sign of an affair between A and R! Quite the opposite, in fact : ''Alexandra's great love (for N!) was sacred to R''. Could it be that editors has spiced the English edition up?
R's sourses are as good as any other's, so why to deny him a  right to write the way he sees things? There can't be any monopoly on historical truth.
And he probably does not really need to try hard to sell his books. Not only he has a multimillion audience in Russia, I can't think of any other Russian author who would get 3 books published in the West over the period of 10 years, one after another.

I would also interpret his mentioning of  Anna being ''in love'' with A not in sexual contect, but rather phycological. Being hurt by her marriage Anna could  be ''off men''  emotionally  at least and found female company more comfortable.
There is an excellent 4 volume collection of memories on Rasputin. Great fun to read. They are all contemporaries, they have been there, met the man, but have totally opposite views - what chances we have to find the truth about him?
This is not right that Alexandra never ever met any males without Nicolas around. This was not a harem: ladies in waiting, daughters were always by hand. And she did visit  Anna's house to see Rasputin more then once.
In a way Nicolas was right, insisting that friendship with Rasputin was their private affair. In only A. could keep R. away from politics! Imagine the strength of public opinion if people, who were not born murderes, came to the conclusion this was the only way. (It was funny to read Xenia Sfiris recent interview, where she wondered, how someone as kind as Felix could possibly murder anyone: ''No one could belive it!'') Radzinsky suggests that he was protecting Dmitrii taking the blame on himself, interestingly....
There is a little film with Vera Coralli acting and dancing on ''History of Russian ballet'' video, have you seen her, Bob?
Galina
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by 3710 »

Offline BobAtchison

  • Moderator
  • Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 896
    • View Profile
    • The Alexander Palace
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2004, 09:39:14 AM »
I would love to see that video Galina... do you know where to get it?
Bob

Offline Arleen

  • Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
    • View Profile
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2004, 10:20:00 AM »
Thank you 3710!!  I sort of felt like I was the only one here who LIKES Radzinsky!!  I have his three books and they have never given me offence, so he writes like a playwright instead of a dry-dead- serious historian (ofwhich I have many books and also enjoy) I actually find his writing charming and enjoy the totally different attitude and even words that he uses.  I just thought that it was the RUSSIANness of the man coming thru......
I never took it that he said A & R had an affair, his words didn't mean that to me....I like the lovely sweet compassion he has for N!
His writing is DIFFERENT....viva la difference!!!!
..Arleen

Offline 3710

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2004, 11:04:49 AM »
Thanks for your support, Arleen :).
Galina(3710)

Offline _Rodger_

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 53
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2004, 02:19:16 PM »
I remember when that book first came out.  It was released to great fanfare and the headlines literally said 'Alexandra had an affair with Rasputin!'  Then Radzinsky put the kabosh to an extent on that sales line, and the furor died down.

But the seed was planted in the minds of those who merely read the bylines and assumed the worst.  The press has done great disservice to the Empress, but what's new?

As far as Rasputin is concerned, and maybe Penny will appreciate this, the Okhrana (which Nicholas didn't really have much control over) was no more reliable regarding it's motives than the Bolsheviks were.  

The Okhrana had motive to discredit Rasputin at every possible point, and the historical smear campaign against this man has continued more or less unabated to this day.

WARNING!!!!  This post may be hazardous to one's sense of things.  Read with caution.

Offline Forum Admin

  • Administrator
  • Velikye Knyaz
  • *****
  • Posts: 4665
  • www.alexanderpalace.org
    • View Profile
    • Alexander Palace Time Machine
Re: Rasputin
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2004, 02:54:02 PM »
Rodger is quite correct on the point about the Okhrana surveillance of Rasputin. While it DID confirm Rasputin was drinking and carrying on with prostitutes, the administration also took reports of unconfirmed rumors of even more scandalous gossip and reported them as well as fact without having them investigated.

Stolypin himself presented a report to the Emperor which Nicholas had investigated for accuracy, and it turned out to be mostly made up.  This happened three times to Nicholas, and after Stolypin's report, Nicholas and Alexandra refused to hear anything else about Rasputin, because every time a report was brought to them, it was a false report to smear his reputation.