Author Topic: Rasputin's "Powers" and His Family Name.  (Read 55478 times)

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Offline Johnny

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #150 on: February 12, 2005, 02:35:02 PM »
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In Radzinsky "Rasputin File" it talks on page 79 how Alexangra was upset at the shameful name the holy man bore, and had him renamed Rasputin-Novy.  "The tsar then gave the order to call me not by the name Rasputin, but Novy." (Iliodor recorded Rasputin's words on the name change.)

This is the genius of Radzinsky as a playwright! I just reread the passage in question in his book. He never says that it was a fact that Alexandra was upset with his name so she ordered him to change it. It's implied but not stated. A word like "perhaps" or "possibily" or "probably" is very poetically omitted and the whole passage is all of a sudden transformed into something else. He is a great, great fiction writer.
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Offline Denise

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #151 on: February 12, 2005, 10:36:37 PM »
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He is a great, great fiction writer.


Isn't he though?  :D  His book has become my guilty pleasure in between the scholarly type books I am reading on the Romanovs.  He is just too entertaining!  

Offline Denise

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Re: Rasputin
« Reply #152 on: February 12, 2005, 10:37:56 PM »
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From Rasputine by Spiridovitch, pg. 73 (my translation):
"That year (1906) or the following year, Rasputin received the name "Novyk".  His daughter Matrona explained that it happened one day when the Tsarevich greeted Grigori with the words "Papa, Papa! here is the new one (Novy)!" This nickname pleased Their Majesties, and so they gave him this new name.  The enemies of the Staryets said that they had changed his name because Rasputin as a name came from "rasputsvo" or debauched, which served as proof to them that his family had long been famous for their vices.  However, as to the Rasputin family themselves, they explain that the name came from the word "rasputye" or the crossing of roads, and moreover this is the far more likely explanation.  In any event, changing Rasputin's name only served to give new ammunition to his enemies."


So THIS is the real story behind Radzinsky's drama.  Thanks for posting this!!

Offline Denise

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #153 on: February 12, 2005, 10:38:41 PM »
Here's a post by the FA on this issue from another thread....

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From Rasputine by Spiridovitch, pg. 73 (my translation):
"That year (1906) or the following year, Rasputin received the name "Novyk".  His daughter Matrona explained that it happened one day when the Tsarevich greeted Grigori with the words "Papa, Papa! here is the new one (Novy)!" This nickname pleased Their Majesties, and so they gave him this new name.  The enemies of the Staryets said that they had changed his name because Rasputin as a name came from "rasputsvo" or debauched, which served as proof to them that his family had long been famous for their vices.  However, as to the Rasputin family themselves, they explain that the name came from the word "rasputye" or the crossing of roads, and moreover this is the far more likely explanation.  In any event, changing Rasputin's name only served to give new ammunition to his enemies."

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #154 on: February 13, 2005, 08:21:21 AM »
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Here's a post by the FA on this issue from another thread....



Thanks, Denise. That thread is actually where this discussion started  :). Looks like that maybe that explains the origin of the name confusion...

Offline Denise

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #155 on: February 13, 2005, 09:10:39 AM »
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Thanks, Denise. That thread is actually where this discussion started  :). Looks like that maybe that explains the origin of the name confusion...


Yes, it certainly clears up Radzinsky's overly dramatized version of events, doesn't it?

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #156 on: February 13, 2005, 10:54:03 AM »
Radzinksy wasn't the only one who presented this "name" theory, but I think that all it takes is just one initial story, and everyone seems to pick it up and repeat it, sometimes without proper verification... And this is how it comes to be accepted as fact.

Offline Johnny

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #157 on: February 13, 2005, 04:03:10 PM »
As I said before, I don't necessarily agree with Radzinsky's explanation as to why. Although, he, too, quotes Spiridovich in his book. Whether Rasputin comes from rasputstvo (debauched) or the Russian word for crossroads, the fact still remains that his original last name was Rasputin and not Novy.
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Offline Denise

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #158 on: February 13, 2005, 08:47:57 PM »
Yes.  It is pretty much agreed that the Novy came from Nicholas....

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #159 on: March 09, 2005, 03:14:19 PM »
Since the last name appeared to have been Rasputin, perhaps the meaning of the name correctly characterized his ancestor  ;D  who was given the name and it stuck not only to him but all those who followed in that line.

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Alekseovich

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #160 on: June 11, 2005, 10:04:06 AM »
From "Bolshoi Russki po-Angliski Slavar" (Comprehensive Russian English Dictionary) Shmirnitski et al;
The closest root word to "Rasputin" is the verb Rasputats; to untie or untangle.
In typical Russian construction the word rasputin would then be a person who untied or untangled. Perhaps in the ancient villige culture the person or persons who untied the livestock to let them out to pasture. There also seams to be a colateral meaning related to travel. Getting "untagled" on the road or "un-lost." So it might be that a rasputin was a guide.
The word rasputnik (still in use) is one who is not tied or tangled. As in not tangled by the bonds of marriage, thus a libertine. Not far from "debauched" to some.
It is in the related verb putats ( to tie, tagle, obscure) that the meaning relating to travel is a bit stronger. So a "Putin" would then be one who tangles, obscures or causes people, or things, to become lost.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Alekseovich »

Offline rudy3

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #161 on: June 11, 2005, 03:02:33 PM »
About "Novy":
In Nicholas' personal archives is Rasputin's request, dated Dec. 15th 1906, to the Tsar, to grant him and his descendants to be called "Rasputin Novy". As reason he wrote: "Living in the vilage of Pokrovskoe, my family name is Rasputin, the same family name I share with many other villagers, therefore may rise all kinds of minsunderstandings."
In municipal documents of Pokrovskoe from 1908 is a remark next to Rasputin's name: Grigorij has been allowed with permission from the Tsar to be called by the family name "Rasputin-Novy". Order from the Tobolsk State Chamber from March 7th 1907, under No. 9136 in case No. 11/1907.
With thanks to Rasputin researcher Arthur Chernyshov,
Tjumen.  

Offline Johnny

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #162 on: June 20, 2005, 06:33:10 AM »
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Getting "untagled" on the road or "un-lost." So it might be that a rasputin was a guide.
The word rasputnik (still in use) is one who is not tied or tangled. As in not tangled by the bonds of marriage, thus a libertine. Not far from "debauched" to some.

Hey, we still have lots of "Hookers" living in the English speaking world. Yet another word that can be interpreted in many ways  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Johnny »
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Rasputin's last name
« Reply #163 on: June 20, 2005, 06:43:53 PM »
Based on the medallion posted on the Pictures of Rasputin thread, he should be known as Rasputin-Noviy, but I guess Rasputin just rolls off the tongue that little bit better ;)