Author Topic: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?  (Read 15564 times)

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belianis

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2009, 06:31:57 PM »
One thing that vexes me about NII is his inability to hold on to an opinion, instead taking the opinion of the last person he talked to, only to further change that opinion when he talked to someone else.
My stepfather is a weakling who cannot make decisions. My family learned long ago not to leave decision making to him, for that simply means that he will change his mind every half hour without ever arriving to a firm clear decision.

Alixz

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2009, 08:40:45 AM »
That could be poor self esteem, lack of self confidence, lack of confidence in one's decision making (remember even his father thought him to be "a child" in his thoughts and opinions).

Or the ability and need to see every side of the argument and then not being sure which side was right.

And then back to my opinion that he was never given the respect he deserved because of his age and that both his mother and his wife treated him as if he needed a "nurse maid".

No one ever said," You should do what you think is best".  They always had to give their own opinions and to make him feel like a child within his own family.

Naslednik

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2009, 02:41:27 PM »
Quote
One thing that vexes me about NII is his inability to hold on to an opinion, instead taking the opinion of the last person he talked to, only to further change that opinion when he talked to someone else.
My stepfather is a weakling who cannot make decisions. My family learned long ago not to leave decision making to him, for that simply means that he will change his mind every half hour without ever arriving to a firm clear decision.

But this was part of the point I tried to make on p.1 -- that we cannot compare our own lives to his in this manner.  Let me take a specific example, one particular problem -- "democratise or hold firm?" as Churchill said.  Is there really a clear cut answer?  And if he waffled on that, or if he resisted that direction, is that weakness?  Is it so obvious that Russia and Russians can be or want to be governed western-style? These are monumental decisions that none of us can comprehend tucking under our pillows every night.  So for us to call him 'weak' requires a certainty of our own superiority.  I would not have made a better Tsar, so I'm not going to call him weak.

By the way, I have an elderly Russian friend, very well educated, who feels that N's biggest mistake was granting (democratic) concessions in 1905.  She is Jewish, too, and certainly no royalist.

But this opens up the larger question, which would belong on another thread: what is our role as historians or history buffs?  Are we here to judge?  My take is this: we learn about the past to understand how history works, to inspire us, to teach us empathy, or to avoid repeating mistakes.  But when it comes to a question of judging character, there we have to walk a tightrope!

belianis

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2009, 07:45:47 PM »
That could be poor self esteem, lack of self confidence, lack of confidence in one's decision making (remember even his father thought him to be "a child" in his thoughts and opinions).

Or the ability and need to see every side of the argument and then not being sure which side was right.

And then back to my opinion that he was never given the respect he deserved because of his age and that both his mother and his wife treated him as if he needed a "nurse maid".

No one ever said," You should do what you think is best".  They always had to give their own opinions and to make him feel like a child within his own family.
What you say fits my stepfather to the last detail. He is one of the younger siblings of a family of 9 brothers and 3 sisters, almost all of them people of strong forceful personalities. 'tis no wonder that he grew up to be a craven coward who is easily intimidated by people with vigorous assertive personalities.

Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2009, 02:36:19 AM »
What is it with royals and autism lately? This reminds me of the topic about Anastasia!

Nicholas wasn't stupid, but IMO, he was too sure. He assumed the throne would be there always for Aleksey, and that God put him in the crown, and God would keep him there. And he didn't seem to take the Duma that seriously.

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2009, 03:51:20 AM »
And he didn't seem to take the Duma that seriously.

True...however, that was because of the "suggestions" of Alexandra too...the Empress detested the Duma, and she not hesitated to express her adversity.
I'm not against Alexandra, but as correctly said by Alixz, she treated her husband as if he needed a "nurse maid".
Nicholas wasn't autistic, his problem was that he didn't know how to say "NO" to his wife.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 03:58:29 AM by RomanovsFan4Ever »

PAVLOV

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2009, 07:30:23 AM »
I think Nicholas's situation was very simple. He was just totally overwhelmed with everything, and so stressed out by all the responsibility that he could not cope. He inherited his situation very early on in life, so was thrown into the melee inwillingly. He did not have the time to mature as a human being in an extraordinary situation, or develop the necessary people skills to handle his demanding uncles, and the advisors inherited from his fathers court.  I think they expected him to react like his father to various situations, which of course he did not.
When we are totally overwhelmed by a situation, our coping skills deminish and we seek to escape, in some form or other.
I think this is why he loved walking and the outdoors so much. It afforded him the opportunity to escape from all those oppressing people.
My opinion is that Nicholas sufferred from severe stress and anxiety, and certainly not autism. Depression maybe, which in its worst form makes one incapable to a certain degree of doing the smallest things in life ( like making decisions). However many people who suffer from depression, are able to go out into the world and be absolutely charming and perform wonders around other people, but minutes later recede back into the gloom. 
I work in an extremely stressful situation as well, and have to " juggle"  people and situations all the time. I also sometimes find myself " listening" to people but not "hearing" a word they are saying. It happens sometimes that ones brain shuts down for a while, simply because we can only cope with so much at a time. I personally think he suffered from traumatic stress disorder, and depression. Perhaps his brain was just shutting down temporarily.  The corporate world we live in today causes exactly the same problem for many people.
I think he built a shell around himself, as a way of protecting himself from his situation, and withdrew into his own world. This would also explain his fatalistic view of life towards the end. His outlook and that of his wife was " Its Gods Will" ,or " We are in Gods hands" Which is of course true. But one also has to do something about your situation, and cannot let events just carry you along. And I think this is what he did towards the end. Everything became just too much. His wife wore the pants, so to speak, and manipulated him emotionally right from the beginning.
 
I dont think that his wife was any help either, and if she was as intelligent as people say she was, she would not have made so many successive, repetitive mistakes. Intelligent people take advice from other people, and she recieved an enormous amount from everyone after he left for Stavka, and stupidlyand blatantly ignored everyone, to the point of alienating her family. So did he actually. So many chances were lost to save the situation.

One can go on and on ........
   

   

Alixz

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2009, 08:28:28 AM »
This would also explain his fatalistic view of life towards the end. His outlook and that of his wife was " Its Gods Will" ,or " We are in Gods hands" Which is of course true. But one also has to do something about your situation, and cannot let events just carry you along. And I think this is what he did towards the end.

I don't know how the Orthodox Bible compares to the King James Version, but I do know that it is said that "God helps those who help themselves."

By bowing down to "God's will", Nicholas was actually not doing what scripture says.

And as for Alexandra, I try to like her and with Griff's help in the Empress Alexandra Fights Back thread, I try to see the good in her that he sees, but I just can not like the woman.  As I mentioned before, her notes to Nicholas is his diary in 1894 were not much different in tone from the letters she sent to him at Stavka in 1916.  She took the role of teacher and advisor and she handed out forgiveness for things that she had no right to judge and/or to forgive.

Offline clockworkgirl21

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2009, 11:34:05 PM »
Quote
This would also explain his fatalistic view of life towards the end. His outlook and that of his wife was " Its Gods Will" ,or " We are in Gods hands" Which is of course true. But one also has to do something about your situation, and cannot let events just carry you along. And I think this is what he did towards the end.

I tried to word that out in my post, but it looked like I was bashing religious people, so I just left it out. Believing in God is good and all, but you have to do something for yourself if you're in trouble, or heading down that way. N&A just sort of left everything to God.

myhusbandswife

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2009, 11:38:13 AM »
Yes, the Bible says God helps those who help themselves..but it also says that God is the One and Only Sovereign, of course, and that we need to Trust in God for everything. I think that N. was doing just that. Putting all of his trust in God. Only God knows the final outcome and I think N. believed in Que sera, sera..what will be, will be. He knew that only God has control over us and whatever happens is God's Will. I don't think he believed in fighting for what he wanted because, maybe, he felt like it was going against God's Will.  Maybe he never said no to Alix because he felt like God had put her there in that position to "help" him...but I think in all actuality, it was a test from God. A test of N.'s strength and ability..obviously he failed. But I am no one to judge, God knows I have failed many, many a tests! Just my perspective..

myhusbandswife

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2009, 06:24:16 PM »
I tired to edit my post to add this, but couldn't, so I will put it here. It's a bible passage that reminded me of how Nicholas was thinking....

James 4:7 says, "Therefore submit to God…." The real evidence of humility is when you have submitted to what God has told you to do. You have yielded your will to His will.I am strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Every day I live, God's strength

I find myself doing the same thing, everyday. Thank God I am not running a country!!

Naslednik

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 04:15:58 PM »
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My opinion is that Nicholas sufferred from severe stress and anxiety, and certainly not autism. Depression maybe, which in its worst form makes one incapable to a certain degree of doing the smallest things in life ( like making decisions). However many people who suffer from depression, are able to go out into the world and be absolutely charming and perform wonders around other people, but minutes later recede back into the gloom.

I agree totally, and also wonder about the traumatic stress -- not in the manner we imagine in combat, but ongoing eroding trauma.

Quote
I still believe that she "guilt tripped him" under the guise of love.

And Alixz, I have been thinking about your characterization of Alexandra as somewhat abusive of him, verbally, and am starting to agree with you.  Knowing what a sensitive man he was, that he could read her signals easily, why did she present him with an ongoing harangue, a sort monologue of criticism?  (this does bolster the theory that he did hold his own opinions and simply resisted her in silence)

Offline RichC

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2009, 06:32:30 PM »
I am surprised to see the number of descriptions of Nicholas II's character as shy, reserved or introverted.  I have never thought of Nicholas II in this way.  And I do not believe he suffered from any psychological problems outside the norm. 

I have always thought of Nicholas II as a fun-loving extrovert whose natural inclination to engage with others was severely curtailed by his position as Tsar of Russia.  I think it was Nicholas' role as Tsar that made him appear so reserved rather than his personality.  If one reads his diaries from his youth he was always looking forward to the next ball, or other exciting social activity.  In my view, he was very much like his mother in this way. 

People who are unsure of themselves, or simply don't know what they are doing, are apt to have a reserved manner in order to protect themselves from coming across as foolish or ignorant.  I've seen this occasionally with people I work with who are unqualified for the jobs they have.  For Nicholas, by his own admission, he was unqualified to be Tsar of Russia, at least when he was younger, so his shy, reserved or introverted behavior could stem from a lack of confidence that was well deserved.  He was over his head through no fault of his own.

Nicholas is also described by many who knew him as having a fatalistic streak in his character.  But I do not believe he was born with this streak; rather it developed, from very early on, based on his perceptions and observations of his own life and world.  You might be fatalistic too if you saw your own grandfather blown up by the very people he wanted to help.

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2009, 07:46:37 AM »
Nicholas is also described by many who knew him as having a fatalistic streak in his character.  But I do not believe he was born with this streak; rather it developed, from very early on, based on his perceptions and observations of his own life and world.  You might be fatalistic too if you saw your own grandfather blown up by the very people he wanted to help.

Absolutely true, the assassination of his grandfather Alexander II was indeed a terrible trauma for Nicholas that brought with him for all his life, this tragic event has deeply influenced his character.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 07:48:16 AM by RomanovsFan4Ever »

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Did Nicholas Have Autism or Any Kind of Social Disorder?
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2009, 08:07:08 PM »
Poor Nicholas, I thought he was shy and (sometimes considered) weak of
character, but it sounds very logical