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Rasputin's Murder

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Richard_Cullen:
THE TRUE AND AUTHENTIC STORY OF THE MURDER AS RELATED TO STOPFORD 6 JUNE 1917, AT YALTA BY FELIX.

1. He says that there was no supper party - well that coincides with Y and P, just the pretence of one.

2. Y went to fetch R personally - R had never set foot in the Palace (this is strangley at odds with the privately circulated memorandum he produces at Appendix II where he suggests R was a regular visitor to the Y Palace where his hosts, a consortia of Princes got him drunk in order to interrogate him).

3. He says the police report leave sno doubt that two women were with them but that Dimitri and Y had always denied this.  Not correct Y had told Popov and written to the Tsarita that there were two women at the Palace.  Something which he, P and lazovery subsequently say is not the case and of which there is not one bit of real evidence to support.

4. Y did not drink he is an abstainer - rubbish he says he drank wine that night and he tells of being drunk on Champagne elsewhere in his memoirs.

5. Crumbs Y borrows P's revolver, Y says he borrowed Dimitri's. P says he took his own baby browning from a drawer in his study desk.

6. Shot him and left him lying on the bearskin - Y and P both insist that Dimitri and P moved the body to save it staining the rug.  P says that it was only 'flattened'.

7. R escapes, P goes in pursuit, but allegedly R has collapsed in the snow.  P fires 4 shots, two miss, difficult if he is lying in the snow, the last two hit the back of the head, he must then have rolled over so P could fire the fatal shot to the forehead.

8. Body taken back in to await the return of the car?  Stopford is mixing the police report and Y's tale here.

9.  he is correct in saying poilce have no right to enter the Palace as Irina lives there (Greg King is very strong on this)

Richard

Richard_Cullen:
Appendix III

Tsaria here come some of the suggestions:

1. Rasputin shot at 7.00am (no evidence at all to support this)

2. Dimitri, Princes Feodor and Nikita Alexandrovich were at the Palace and privvy to the shooting (no evidence to support this contention although Feodor and Nikita undoubtedly knew of the plot as did an awful lot of peopel - Stopford suggest he was told by Dimitri, 12 days before the event)

3. reported that one of teh sons of Grand Duke Constantine involved - no eveidence at all

4. Y and young Pronces, his brothers-in-law together with othe rimperial pronces used to assemble at night with rasputin and get him drunk - not one shred of evidence.

5. Some of Rasputin's ladies were invited by invitation - not one shred of evidence.

6. from the reports of the police investigation (he refers to Appendix III) it would apepar that at about 2.30 R was told he would die and was givemn the option of committing suicide and given a gun - really this is a fantasy world.

7.  he is alleged to have fired the gun in the direction of Dimitri - that is why you wouldn't give a trapped man a gun.

Richard

Richard_Cullen:
Appendix III

Tsaria here come some of the suggestions:

1. Rasputin shot at 7.00am (no evidence at all to support this)

2. Dimitri, Princes Feodor and Nikita Alexandrovich were at the Palace and privvy to the shooting (no evidence to support this contention although Feodor and Nikita undoubtedly knew of the plot as did an awful lot of peopel - Stopford suggest he was told by Dimitri, 12 days before the event)

3. reported that one of teh sons of Grand Duke Constantine involved - no eveidence at all

4. Y and young Pronces, his brothers-in-law together with othe rimperial pronces used to assemble at night with rasputin and get him drunk - not one shred of evidence.

5. Some of Rasputin's ladies were invited by invitation - not one shred of evidence.

6. from the reports of the police investigation (he refers to Appendix III) it would apepar that at about 2.30 R was told he would die and was givemn the option of committing suicide and given a gun - really this is a fantasy world.

7.  he is alleged to have fired the gun in the direction of Dimitri - that is why you wouldn't give a trapped man a gun.

Richard

Forum Admin:

--- Quote ---FA (Rob) Of course the problem is we believe the story that R was only going to the Y Palace because Irina was going to be there.  We have no independent evidence of this, the letters between Felix and Irina hint at somehting but there is nothing saying 'I want you here beacuse you are the lure for Rasputin'  I think this is the problem we all have, is anything, other than that which we have evidence to support, the truth or is it part of the conspiratoral story created by Y and P?  I don't know the answer.

Richard


--- End quote ---


Richard, you missed this above: (A...is Anna Vyrubova, who told Alexandra and others  that Rasputin specifically told HER this)

Alexandra's letter (in part) to Nicholas  dated 17 Dec. 1916:
"You can not imagine our feelings, our thoughts: our Friend disappeared. Yesterday A...saw him; he told her that Felix invited Him to come to his house that night, and that an automobile would come to take Him to go see Irina.

Spirid.: pg 375. Dec. 16
"In the afternoon Grigori took a nap to disspiate some of the wine he had been drinking.  Afterwards he took a long shower.  When he felt better, it was announced to him that A.A. Vyroubova would come at 8pm to see him.  At that time no one else was in his house except Maria Golovina.  The staryets told her that he was going that evening to Felix's house, and she was very happy to hear it.
"Annoutchka appeared at 8pm, and she brought him a small wooden icon which the Empress had brought from Novgorod to present to him.  On the back of the icon were the signatures of the Empress and all her children.  Rasputin also then told A.A. Vyrubova that he was going to Felix's house at 1am.  As Anoutchka was astonished at the lateness of such an hour, the staryets explained that he was going to take care of Felix's wife who had been ill, but because the rest of the family hated him, the prince asked him to come very late so that no one would see him in the palace.  Vyubova advised him that he should not go as she felt something suspicious about the invitation.  Moreover, since Felix and his wife would be publicly disgraced should they openly receive R, there would be no harm in refusing to go. Annoutchka and Mounia Golovina left around 9pm.  As soon as she returned to Tsarskoe Selo, AA Vyrubova told the Empress about the staryets' intentions to go.  Alexandra Feodorovna knew full well that Princess Irina Alexandrovna was still in the Crimea, and so was very much surprised, so that she thought that Vyrubova must have misunderstood him.  At 10 pm, once his girls were asleep as usual, R. went into their room.  He told them that Y. was coming to get him later that night, so that if anyone telephoned, they must respond that he was not home, but they should not tell anyone that he was at the Yussupov house.  
"About this time, the Ohkrana agents retired...."

I for one am wholly convinced of the truth of the "cover story" that R was expecting to see Irina at F's invitation. Pehaps if only Vyrubova had told it there may be doubt, however Alexandra's telling it to N. gives it extrinsic credibility. It actually makes sense now that perhaps women WERE there, so the R might hear a female voice and assume it was Irina.

Annie:
I know Radzinksky is not popular here, but according to "The Rasputin File", there were 2 women present and he named them by name. One was a ballerina, one was Dmitri's stepsister, his stepmother's child by her first husband. Anna V. was apparently friends with the  latter, and got the report from her. This is  mentioned in her book, and seems to have been backed up by police reports released after the Soviet regime fell, which stated 2 women were seen by police being shoved out a door around dawn, this is mentioned in "The Rasputin File."  I will consult the books and come back later with direct quotes.

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