Discussions about Russian History > Rasputin

Rasputin's Murder

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Phil_tomaselli:
A Russian author named Oleg Shishkin produced a book about 3 years ago in which he claimed (I believe) that Rasputin was some kind of German agent of influence.  Unfortunately, not having read the book, I can't comment other than to say that Steven Alley, one of the British officers involved in the murder, was Counter-Espionage officer with the Intelligence Mission specifically tasked with investigating German agents and liaising with the Russian authorities.

It may be that there's more on this in the German archives, which are horribly neglected by  "British" historians.  A friend of mine is in there at the moment and says it is a goldmine of neglected material on the plot to get Lenin into Russia, for example.

Oh for more time, resources and an ability to read Russian and German!

Phil T

Richard_Cullen:
Tsaria, Phil and FA

Rudy has Shishkin's book and can undoubtedly tell us what the theme of his book was.  In fact Rudy has a tremendous amount on Rasputin.

Tsaria - my issue is (and anyone can believe what they want) why on earth, if Y and P did commit the murder why tell so many lies - the lies about how he was shot - we know it was a lie.  I posted on here sometime ago the descrepancies between the two tales, why if the were the murderers did they lie so much.

They, if they were covering for Dimitri, or someone else have said and we shot him in the side and then the back and then we shot him point blank in the head.

I followed their story it is only now that I challenge it as fundamentally flawed and have to say wre they there?  They may have been in the Palce, they may have fronted the police, but were they there when he was killed?

Richard

Richard_Cullen:
Tsaria

I think it would be great if you could get your sources into the discussion, however I think we have to be clear that Kossorotov, Zharov plus his colleagues, and Derrick Pounder are all at one on three different calibres, the shot to the forehead being caused by the largest calibre weapon - Zharov and Pounder - we don'y know what Kossorotov thought.

I think it would be pretty stunning coincidence if Derrick Pounder and I had come to the same flawed conclusion, having conducted our work in isolation.  Derrick is even precise about the type of bullet.

These are the Zharov team:

Zharov Vladimir Vasilievich, the head of the forensic medical analysis bureau, with a Ph.D in medicine, who has worked in this capacity for 29 years has got a the highest qualification degree and is a professor of medicine. Zharov is Russia's leading pathologist.

Panov Igor Yevgenievich (Ph.D in medicine), deputy head of the same bureau, a specialist in forensic medicine, having a 34 year experience of working in this field,

Vasilevskiy Valeriy Konstantinovich, the deputy head of the same bureau a specialist in forensic medicine with 22 years of experience and has the highest qualification degree,

I also interrogated Zharov about the wounds when i interviewed him.  He says of course Purishkevich lied the forensic evidence disproves his story.

You mention Dimitri, but he insisted that he had not been involved in the murder - I can dig out the extracts from the letters etc if needed - In fcat Rudy has the extract because he e-mailed it to me the other day.

There has to be some reason that D did not tell his version of events and why he didn't associate with Y when they were both in Paris.  They were so close, what happened to split that friendship?

When I interviewed Gordon Rayner - not on the TV but at his home pre the TV interview he told me about his parent's having a book about Rasputin it was kep on a bookshelf.  When Oswald came to visit Gordon's father hide the book because he was terrified at what Oswald would say if he saw a book about Rasputin in the house.

Muriel Scales was a brilliant person you could feel the hatred that her father had for Rasputin, she really believed he was evil.  It was obvious her father had openly discussed his involvement in the plot.

Over my years a a detective I have seen many people lie, convincigly about the crimes they have committed.  there are people who serve out their terms of imprisonment not admitting the crime they have committed.  Some people suggest that they might be innocent but where they have been properly convicted and the forensics is there they still convince people 'it was not me'.  I have equally wasted hours of my time on murder inquiries when people have 'admitted' murders, they did not commit.  It would have been easy to charge them, but they hadn't committed the crime.

Richard





Richard_Cullen:
Grishka,

Hate is a dreadful thing and it can inspire or provoke people to do horrible things to the subject of that hate.  Can you imagine how the extended IF and the nobles felt about a peasant being that close to the Tsar and Tsarita and the IF.  I don't think R can be reasonably blame ofr the Revolution or what else was to befall Tsarist Russia but hate can cause people to see things that aren't there - conspiracies with the Germans being one of them.  The same applies to racists, homophobes, etc. etc.

They did believe, the ordinary folk and I think Y and co. that he was a 'devil' P and Y both use that word - powerful stuff.

Richard

Forum Admin:
Two points to interject.
1. Re Dmitri. Dmitri felt it primary that he be able to swear, as he actually did, to his father, and the Emperor (and I think the exact words are critical) "I swear on the memory of my depararted Mother that my hands have not been stained by Raputin's blood." The cover story myth clearly achieves this goal.

2. Accurate or not, the Y,P, and Dmitri stories all concur that they believed Rasputin was an agent of German influence over Alexandra and thus the Emperor, and that his interference (perceived or genuine) in the government in general was becoming so detrimental that it became critical to remove R. from the picture.

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