Author Topic: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent  (Read 37597 times)

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Offline masha

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Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« on: September 19, 2004, 04:48:34 PM »
Sorry if this is a cross-posting or whatever you call it when a topic has already been discussed.....anyhow, just saw an article from the Sunday Telegraph that says a documentary is to be broadcast next month (presumably in Britain only) that states a member of the British Secret Intelligence Service working at the Russian Court in St. Petersburg was the true killer of Rasputin.

Has anyone heard this theory before? If not, I'll provide more details from the article....

Masha

Offline Annie

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2004, 04:52:03 PM »
Well there is an awful lot of evidence that he was killed at the Moika that night by Yussoupov and his accomplices. There are even police reports and historical documents, not only the eyewitness accounts.There may be some question as to who fired the mortal shots, Felix, Dmitri or Purishkevitch, but I never heard anything about any British agent. He may have wanted to but somebody beat him to it.

Offline masha

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2004, 05:15:43 PM »
O.K., here's what the article says:

"Richard Culle, a retired Scotland Yard commander who has been studying the case with Andrew Cook, an intlligence historian, says that a new forensic analysis and an examination of  official records helped him to reach his conclusion. "I'm 99.9 per cent certain of this' said Cullen. "There is a fair weight of evidence to show that Oswald Rayner (the british secret agent) was the man."...Now it is claimed that the British security service wanted to kill Rasputin, who was hoping to broker peace between Russian and Germany, because of his influence over the Tsar. The fear, according to Cullen, was that if such a deal had been agreed in 1916, then 350, 000 German troops would have been freed to fight the Allies.
Rayner was known to be in St. Petersburg in December 1916 when Rasputin died. A close friend from univeristy was Prince Felix Yousupov, at whose palace the murder took place.....Yusopov wrote that the day after the murder he dined with Rayner who "knew of our conspiracy and had come in search of news."
The BBC documentary says that modern forensic eveidence contradicts this account. Post-mortem photographs of Rasputin show a mysterious third bullet wound in the centre of his forehead. The precise positioning of this, the fatal shot, suggests that it was the work of a professional killer. It was also fired at close range, yet Purishkevich shot Rasputin form behind at a distance. The 3 bullet holes are of different sizes and forensic scientists have now determined that the bullets were fired from three different guns.
Cullen conludes that there was a third gunman and that this was Rayner who knew about the plot, was at the palace and wanted Rasputin dead. Rayner's involvement was kept secret by his superiors and by the Russian conspirators, who were eager to gain the glory themselves. If Rayner was the killer he never spoke about what he had done. He burnt all his papers and took the secret to his grave in 1961."

Offline Valmont

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2004, 05:44:46 PM »
Interesting, but, how come nobody said anything before?..I understand there were a lot more people in the "party" besides, Felix & Dimitry..

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Offline Annie

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2004, 05:58:10 PM »
Oh yes, Greg King's book and Radzinsky's book both document the events of that night in detail, complete with eyewitness accounts and concrete evidence. Felix and Dmitri were hailed as heroes in St. Petersburg, and some Russian peasants felt angry that noblemen had killed their go between with the tsar. Why would everyone allow that to happen if a foreigner was guilty? Besides, there are diaries and letters of the Tsar, Ella, Paleolouge, Purishkevitch, and other members of the royal family. Felix and Dmitri were even punished! Surely if they had not been the killers the people back then would have known. All the evidence points to them. We can't ignore what happened.

Speaking of forensic evidence, isn't it a fact that all the shots came from the same gun, Dmitri's Browning revolver, which was used by all 3 shooters?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Annie »

Offline Valmont

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2004, 06:03:20 PM »
exactly my point Annie...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Valmont »
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Annie

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2004, 06:39:07 PM »
Okay :)

He was Felix's friend and he may have been there, a lot of people were there, as valmont said. But he wasn't the gunman.

Offline masha

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2004, 09:49:16 PM »
I'm with both of you, Arturo & Annie, that this all seems a little far-fetched. It doesn't make sense that any mention of this British is lacking in all the communications between the Tsar & Tsarina et al.  It will be interesting to see this BBC documentary with all the details, but one becomes rather sceptical if not jaded by conspiracy-theory-people who either hash up alternative possibilities to mostly solved mysteries or attempt retro-forensics whith a lot of "what-ifs" or "if one assumes" - Summers & Mangold's Hunt for the Tsar, Peter Kurth's Anastasia, Oliver Stone's JFK, etc.
I suppose we will never know all the details, indeed will we ever know the true identities of those who make up the bigger pieces of the puzzle - i.e. who really shot Rasputin. 

Masha
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by masha »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2004, 10:02:37 PM »
Good grief ! Another crock !! So who, then, had his body dug up & burned, after the revolution ?
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Offline Valmont

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2004, 09:18:09 AM »
No Robert, I think you got it wrong, hehe.. It is not that Rasputin  was not killed and burried, but that a British secret agent killed Rasputin that night at the Yussupov's Moika palace, instead of Felix... ;D

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2004, 10:32:17 AM »
Yes, you are right. I just reacted to yet another  Romanov/Rasputin et al conspiricy story  coming out of the woodwork- hastily.
After reading the article I realised my mistake.
Thanks,
Robert
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Offline Louise

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2004, 01:07:13 PM »
HA HA HA...Oh gosh I read this and laughed and I really can't wait to see it. Should be fun to watch.

Louise
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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2004, 04:08:37 PM »
Quote
O.K., here's what the article says:

The BBC documentary says that modern forensic eveidence contradicts this account. Post-mortem photographs of Rasputin show a mysterious third bullet wound in the centre of his forehead. The precise positioning of this, the fatal shot, suggests that it was the work of a professional killer. It was also fired at close range, yet Purishkevich shot Rasputin form behind at a distance. The 3 bullet holes are of different sizes and forensic scientists have now determined that the bullets were fired from three different guns.
Cullen conludes that there was a third gunman and that this was Rayner who knew about the plot, was at the palace and wanted Rasputin dead.


Just received my copy of Spiridovitch's 1935 "Rasputin" bio, which he wrote using much of his personal archives, and of course what he remembered from having read everything on the matter at the time.

Forensic science hasn't proved anything "new". Here is his report of the autopsy:"There were three gun shot wounds.  The first bullet had penetrated in the left part of the chest and went through the stomach and liver; the second entered in the left part of the back and went through the kidneys; the third hit Rasputin in the face and penetrated into the skull.  The first two bullets hit the staryets standing, the third hit him when he was laid out on the ground.  The brain matter gave off an odor of alcohol.  In the stomach, the doctor found 20 tablespoons of a brownish liquid seeming to be alcohol.  The autopsy did not reveal the presence of poison."pg.401-402.

I do find one thing odd though. No one EVER questioned the obvious contradiction staring them in the face even then. Purishevich said he shot Rasputin in the  BACK of the head, but the original autopsy, as above, revealed he was shot in the face from the front lying on his back. Even Radzinsky ignores this in his book...
Perhaps Greg can shed some light for me?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Annie

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2004, 05:07:30 PM »
Wow, FA, I never noticed that, me a big Felix and Rasputin fan, I'm ashamed of myself! I would rule out Felix as the one who shot him in the face, I don't think he could do that, and he wasn't that good of a shot. The mystery continues  :o

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Re: Rasputin Murdered by a British Agent
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2004, 01:37:05 AM »
Quote

Forensic science hasn't proved anything "new". Here is his report of the autopsy:"There were three gun shot wounds.  The first bullet had penetrated in the left part of the chest and went through the stomach and liver; the second entered in the left part of the back and went through the kidneys;


So, thinking about this some more, the first shot had to be from ABOVE to enter the left chest and down thru the stomach and liver....more contradiction to the "standard" account that Felix shot him in the basement?? no?