Author Topic: Pictures of Rasputin  (Read 159841 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #90 on: August 23, 2006, 10:16:50 AM »
Yes, indeed, the Vorres book does give a good portrait of Rasputin. Thanks for bringing it up, Georgiy. Olga Alexandrovna did not really like Rasputin - he weirded her out, but she gave credit where credit was due.

Olga describes Rasputin in almost exactly the same way as I did above: "... he was neither saint nor devil. To Nicky and Alicky he remained what he really was - a peasant with a profound faith in God and a gift of healing." (p. 129).

Olga told the author that Rasputin's influence on the imperial couple was highly exaggerated (p.128). She goes on to say "...someone turned him into a member of the staff. Many others made him monk or priest. He had no position at court or in the church [pay attention, Tania ]. And apart from his undoubted gift of healing, Rasputin was neither as impressive nor as exciting as people think. He was just a strannik. "  (p. 129)

"It is important to remember that Nicky and Alicky were fully aware of Rasputin's past... and neither of them had been duped by Rasputin, or had the least illusion about him. The unfortunate thing was the public did not know the truth, and neither Nicky or Alicky, because of their position, could fight the lies which were being spread." (p. 130).

".... Wildy exaggerated reports about his influence at court made many people try to turn him into a tool to further their own ambitions. Rasputin was beseiged with petitions, and presents showered on him, but he never kept anything for his own use. I know he helped the poor of St Petersburg and elsewhere. And not once did I hear him beg for any favors from Nicky and Alicky. I often heard him make requests for others. I am sure that his attachment to my brother and his wife was utterly devoid of self-interest. He might have easily have amassed a fortune, but he died owning a Bible, some clothes and a few things given to him by the Empress for his personal use. Even the furniture in his flat on Gorokhovaya Street in St Petersburg did not belong to him. It is true that he received large sums of money, but all of it was given away. Rasputin just kept enough to provide food and clothing for his family in Siberia. And if, at the very end, he became conscious of the political power he could exert, it was only because some ruthless and unscrupulous people forced him into it." (p. 131).

"... I never liked the man. All the same, the interests of history cannot be served by a false perspective". (p. 131)


Offline Tania+

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1206
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #91 on: August 23, 2006, 12:14:51 PM »
I am appreciative always to Georgiy for bringing up pertinant information that has relevancy to a given subject, and in the kind manner in which he so kindly offers it. I am aware of the book and the passages in the book as to Rasputin's profile, etc. Although he remains questionable to many in the Russian community, it does not mean that everyone has the sameness of sentiments about this person. There were questions and eyebrows raised then, and these issues still remain today. The book is based of course on one person's opinion, though there are other books on his life, I'm sure. As I said early on, he was not a member of the ROC, and I know he had no other tiitles, then remaining the person he came to be known as, so I don't much care to have further thoughs about Rasputin. This was my main point, and remains just that, so there is no reason to lose one's cool. You are more than entitled to your views, and i, my'n. I am knowledgeable of my Russian roots and heritage, and the historical figures of the russian revolution, etc., so no need to tell me, 'to pay attention'.

As to your public rebuke to me Helen, it is not your concern to make someone gain your attention and or views. A simple statement or comment to that of just stating the facts you feeel needs to be focused on for any reader, is more appropriate, and winning then making it seem as if you are teacher, or historian for the AP thread. We all give input and that is what should be the focus. Whether someone agrees with what is offered is another matter. We are all with ability to discern, and make choices we feel is best overall. Thank you ! Now, back to the thread.....

Tatiana+

Yes, indeed, the Vorres book does give a good portrait of Rasputin. Thanks for bringing it up, Georgiy. Olga Alexandrovna did not really like Rasputin - he weirded her out, but she gave credit where credit was due.

Olga describes Rasputin in almost exactly the same way as I did above: "... he was neither saint nor devil. To Nicky and Alicky he remained what he really was - a peasant with a profound faith in God and a gift of healing." (p. 129).

Olga told the author that Rasputin's influence on the imperial couple was highly exaggerated (p.128). She goes on to say "...someone turned him into a member of the staff. Many others made him monk or priest. He had no position at court or in the church [pay attention, Tania ]. And apart from his undoubted gift of healing, Rasputin was neither as impressive nor as exciting as people think. He was just a strannik. "  (p. 129)

"It is important to remember that Nicky and Alicky were fully aware of Rasputin's past... and neither of them had been duped by Rasputin, or had the least illusion about him. The unfortunate thing was the public did not know the truth, and neither Nicky or Alicky, because of their position, could fight the lies which were being spread." (p. 130).

".... Wildy exaggerated reports about his influence at court made many people try to turn him into a tool to further their own ambitions. Rasputin was beseiged with petitions, and presents showered on him, but he never kept anything for his own use. I know he helped the poor of St Petersburg and elsewhere. And not once did I hear him beg for any favors from Nicky and Alicky. I often heard him make requests for others. I am sure that his attachment to my brother and his wife was utterly devoid of self-interest. He might have easily have amassed a fortune, but he died owning a Bible, some clothes and a few things given to him by the Empress for his personal use. Even the furniture in his flat on Gorokhovaya Street in St Petersburg did not belong to him. It is true that he received large sums of money, but all of it was given away. Rasputin just kept enough to provide food and clothing for his family in Siberia. And if, at the very end, he became conscious of the political power he could exert, it was only because some ruthless and unscrupulous people forced him into it." (p. 131).

"... I never liked the man. All the same, the interests of history cannot be served by a false perspective". (p. 131)
TatianaA


Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #92 on: August 23, 2006, 12:37:20 PM »
To Helen, thanks a lot for the information.  I am just starting to learn about Russian history and I appreciate your input.

You're welcome, Emyrna, it's my pleasure!  :)

Offline Georgiy

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 2023
  • Slava v vyshnikh Bogu
    • View Profile
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #93 on: August 23, 2006, 10:26:19 PM »
Indeed the book is based on one person's opinion, but to my mind, it is a most pertinant viewpoint as GD Olga was the Tsar's sister. Her opinion of him I think is probably one of the most unbiased I have read.

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #94 on: August 25, 2006, 09:26:00 AM »
Indeed the book is based on one person's opinion, but to my mind, it is a most pertinant viewpoint as GD Olga was the Tsar's sister. Her opinion of him I think is probably one of the most unbiased I have read.

I agree, Georgiy. After all, not all opinions have the same value or carry the same weight. Grand Duchess Olga was a direct observer of the interaction between  Rasputin and her brother and sister-in-law on more than one occasion. At the same time, although she didn't like him personally, she had no reason to be biased in favor - or against - Rasputin, therefore her testimony seems very credible, unlike some others' who were strongly biased in one direction or the other. I believe that hers is the most realistic and historically accurate description of the kind of man Rasputin really was, and of his relationship with the IF.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 09:28:12 AM by Helen_A »

Offline Tania+

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 1206
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
    • View Profile
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #95 on: August 25, 2006, 07:20:14 PM »
Thank you Georgiy always for your kind input.

Tatiana+
TatianaA


Offline anna11

  • Boyar
  • **
  • Posts: 231
  • history is the world's court of justice
    • View Profile
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #96 on: September 07, 2006, 03:01:31 AM »


The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Offline Richard_Cullen

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
  • Sad memory brings the light. Thomas Moore 1815
    • View Profile
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #97 on: September 07, 2006, 09:12:56 AM »
I need to look at this picture closely but my initial reaction when comparing the features of Rasputin with the person in the photograph I have to conclude either it is a very bad copy, or probably a copy of a copy, of a copy.  Or it is not Rasputin, which I think is the most likely.  The photographs blurs on enlarging so I need to use some software at home, but what is that behind the adult, bike wheels?

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #98 on: September 07, 2006, 10:25:27 AM »
I never thought it looked like him either, but it's most often labeled as him with his children, l-r, Maria, Varvara and Dmitri.

Offline Richard_Cullen

  • Graf
  • ***
  • Posts: 373
  • Sad memory brings the light. Thomas Moore 1815
    • View Profile
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #99 on: September 07, 2006, 02:05:29 PM »
I have now looked at this in detail, but the quality of the image is very poor.  By comparing facial features I would say that it is not Rasputin.  I do think that it is a bicycle wheel behind the adult with a pneumatic tyre.  I don't think that was circa 1900 to 1916?

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #100 on: September 07, 2006, 02:24:06 PM »
I never thought it looked like him either, but it's most often labeled as him with his children, l-r, Maria, Varvara and Dmitri.
Yes, I too have seen this photo labeled this way. It doesn't really look like Rasputin to me either, and the girl doesn't look like Maria, at least not based on her photos as an adult. They look like a regular Russian peasant family, maybe someone saw it and mislabeled as Rasputin not realizing that most Russian peasant men had looked like this. And it may have just continued on, being mislabled, as it often happens. Does anyone have Maria Rasputina's photo handy?

Here is a larger version of this photo, but I don't think it helps much....




Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #101 on: September 08, 2006, 02:41:54 PM »
Maria is in the center sitting in front of the man holding the teacup. I don't think the other pic looks like her at all. She had very distinctive features, even in old age, she still resembled this pic.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 06:01:02 PM by Alixz »

Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #102 on: September 08, 2006, 04:07:01 PM »
Trying again with the pic,doesn't seem to be working



okay it works. A mod can fix it in my post by adding the other h and delete this post now.It's not coming up very big, the original in sin the 'Pics of Rasputin' thread on the second page of this forum. I would cut her face out and blow it up but my computer is currently broken and the one I'm using has no photoshop features.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 04:09:07 PM by Annie »

Offline Helen_Azar

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 7472
  • Coming up Fall 2015: Tatiana's diaries and letters
    • View Profile
    • War-time diaries of Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna Romanov
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #103 on: September 08, 2006, 07:18:14 PM »
Thanks for the photo, Annie.




Hmmm... The same girl? I don't know....



Offline Annie

  • Velikye Knyaz
  • ****
  • Posts: 4756
    • View Profile
    • Anna Anderson Exposed!
Re: Pictures of Rasputin
« Reply #104 on: September 08, 2006, 11:37:28 PM »
Thanks for blowing it up!

I don't think it is the same girl. But of course it's hard to tell because the face is so distorted in the picture of the little girl. How about comparing the Rasputin faces? Would that do any good?