Do you dislike a French royal?

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

Who & why?

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

I dislike Louis XVI a little bit, he was so apathetic

[REMI]

All the Orleans!

[erzsi]

I dislike Marie Antoinette, her life is so overstimate, she had never done somethink for France or for the people, she was very selfish and careless.
 It was not her fault alone, that the french Revolution came over France, but she did a big part that it finally happend. She betray France in the opposite, the king and deed  the destiny of her family. She also doesn´t deserve these kind of attention she get today in the opposite to other person.

[erzsi]

I dislike Louis XVI a little bit, he was so apathetic

Why do you think, he was apathetic?
because it isn´t true, he was a king with a lot if Ideas and plans to rescue France.
He was a very intelligent and handsome man, he know whats going on in France, the bad living situation of the people, the miserable financial position and he wanted to change it.
But his wife did a lot to damage his fame, specially during the revolution.
Marie Antoinette  destroyed his good name to conceal her own errors, eg. when she committed high treason against France and the king. With that eg. the Revolutionaries got the chance to judge infront of the tribunal.

[Kimberly]

Hi Erszi, I'm not keen on MA either.....don't know why, I just find her annoying. :-)

[Rani]

All the Orleans!

You are so right!
Especially Louis Philippe Albert d'Orléans, Comte de Paris.

[RomanovsFan4Ever]

I confess...I dislike Napoleon Bonaparte, he was indeed a great Emperor, but I find him arrogant...just my opinion.

[Imperial_Grounds]

Same here - I don't like Napoleon either.  For the same reason.

But people say MA commited treason - tell me in what manner, by trying to flee the country after the revolution? Why would that be treason, the Royal Family knew their lives were in danger and I am sure getting into safety was first thing on their mind then, second to get the country back. And people forget that at the Royal court of Versailles people did not know about the terrible lives of the common people. Marie Antoinette and those at court never know any other way of life, so how would they have been to blame for the way the peole lived. They just did not know. Marie Antoinette and her family only found out about the situation when it was too late. And indeed the king wanted reforms, but it was not MA who was agains them, the Clergy and Aristocracy were against those reforms because it would take away some of their priviliges. Also members of the government refused to let these reforms happen, again personal greed, but this is not to blame on Lous and Marie Antoinette.

[erzsi]

@ Kimberly: Thanks, there not many people who think so, so it´s wonderfull to know that people exist who not only want to see the candy site of Marie Antoinette.

[erzsi]

@Imperial_Grounds

Nobody say, that the escape was the betrayal, because he didn´t want to go at the beginning, it was her Idea to escape from France. Her and Fersens. The problem was that the Revolution fights, to say it simpl, against the church... With that it was "easy" to get Louis for this plan too, with his children. Cause MA knew to use them as his biggest "weakness".
The Situation before the flee and who arrange it can you see in the french doku "L'évasion de Louis XVI." *to find on dailymotion* which is based on the wonderful book of jean christian petifils
But Marie Antoinette betray France and the King, because she sent the plans of action to the austrian Emperor, so Leopold know what the french army plan and he won the war against France in 1792.
But her betrayal came out years later.
For the revolutionary was this the perfect reason to put Louis for the Revolution Court and adjudge him and sent him to death, after they "forced" him to start these war he never wanted. He was the culprit of this desaster.
And it´s also a lie that Louis didn´t know that the people lived in poor conditions, he know it and he want to change it but only one men can´t change the fortune of a whole country like France.
His minister and adviser work against him because they didn´t want to lose they´re privileges and People like Ropespierre and Desmoulins start a Revolution.
And also Marie Antoinette knows of the problems and the difficult Situation of France, her Mother, Maria Theresia, teached her to open her Eyes for the needs of her folk and also Louis gave her a advise.

[Imperial_Grounds]

Of course, I must say I have only seen a documentary on her, and the movies but I have not yet read her biography - which I in fact intend on doing(but I read 'The Lost King of France' which includes her too, from her arrival in French up to her death)

I had heard MA had correspondence with the Emperor, but I thought it was simply her trying to motivate him into saving her and her family. One must understand of course her reasons, French people were hostile towards the Royal Family and especially Marie, so that must have moved her to that action. Yes I knew she and Fersen were behind the escape-plans, but also I think this purely was out of desperation. Well, as I posted about Louis I know he wanted reforms, and with this I also meant changing the conditions of the poor. I don't think Marie really realised how terrible the people lived, she was always used to luxury and privilege and perhaps did not know how the situation really was, until it was too late to Deny it.

But I will read Antonia Fraser's biography of her - I have heard it is quite good, and then I will see if I must change some of my opinions on her.
 

[erzsi]

Well, she want that Leopold help her and her family but he only want to know what the french army arrange for the next attack against the austrian army.
He wasn´t interest in the person of his sister. And she doesn´t watched behind his plans. Cause she was sooo much into her wish to leave France, there was to much hate from her site for things the french folk did in her eyes which were actually her own fault. As said she never did anything good for the folk in the opposite to her husband. So its not really a right of her, to work in that way against France and there is also not deserving of understanding for her, i find!
And I think MA knows of the poorness of her folk but she wasn´t interested in it. For that she got enough examples!!!
Maria Theresia wrote very often in her letters, that she should be a Queen for her folk.

And the Biography from Fraser is not the best of Marie Antoinette, Fraser has her own view of MA... Like she imaged Kirsten Dunst in her acting like MA...and if you really know MA´s life you would/will know this movie /Dunst doesn´t represent MA in a right way!
A very good Biography is Vincent Cronin Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, it´s a very interesting Biography of the both, but be carful with it. Better is Bernard Fay and Jean Christian Petefils!! But sadly, i must gto say that the best books are just in french!

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

I dislike Louis XVI a little bit, he was so apathetic

Why do you think, he was apathetic?
because it isn´t true, he was a king with a lot if Ideas and plans to rescue France.
He was a very intelligent and handsome man, he know whats going on in France, the bad living situation of the people, the miserable financial position and he wanted to change it.
But his wife did a lot to damage his fame, specially during the revolution.
Marie Antoinette  destroyed his good name to conceal her own errors, eg. when she committed high treason against France and the king. With that eg. the Revolutionaries got the chance to judge infront of the tribunal.

I consider him a man with a weak character, just my point of view

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

I confess...I dislike Napoleon Bonaparte, he was indeed a great Emperor, but I find him arrogant...just my opinion.

... and also a bad father, he left alone Napoleon II