Author Topic: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)  (Read 39963 times)

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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2011, 12:27:54 PM »
  As a follow-up:  IMO, what is most curious, both the former posters (one in March 2004 and the other in Jan. 2011) mentioned specifically the word "Tarabar," but do not comment on how the NAME was derived NOR a verifiably documented source of their information.  Thus HOW do we know the so-called name of this allegedly "code" language, so that two posters YEARS apart remark upon it?  Potential answer:  Perhaps they separately utilized a single and presently undefined source?  If so, that source's origin predates March, 2004. Who knows? One of history's little mysteries I suppose: terribly esoteric, and now truly a "dead language."                                                                                                Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 12:47:29 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

Offline Sunny

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2011, 01:55:48 PM »
Holly posted this a while ago in the "Just to put this out there--Romanov style" thread.
I've only seen it mentioned in one book that I can remember.

Maria, Anastasia and Alexei would use the coded language to write each other messages and exchange them secretly. It appears to me to just be a change in spellings and such.
Here's the only sample published so far:

"To Her Highness stupid Marie and Anostoie. Thanks for thesnakck I rekon well befightin. M. A. Alexei. 1914."
Apparently Maria was included too.

Thanks, Andrea!
I would like to read it in russian. Translating code languages from another language is always very hard (my "translator voice" is speaking now!) so i wish i could have the sample in original russian - even if it would be hard to understand. Now i'm going to rack my brain in the effort to recreate something similar in italian for my novel. Uhm... hard work! I guess i'll have to spend some nights on it...

  As a follow-up:  IMO, what is most curious, both the former posters (one in March 2004 and the other in Jan. 2011) mentioned specifically the word "Tarabar," but do not comment on how the NAME was derived NOR a verifiably documented source of their information.  Thus HOW do we know the so-called name of this allegedly "code" language, so that two posters YEARS apart remark upon it?  Potential answer:  Perhaps they separately utilized a single and presently undefined source?  If so, that source's origin predates March, 2004. Who knows? One of history's little mysteries I suppose: terribly esoteric, and now truly a "dead language."                                                                                                Regards,  AP.

You're so right, AP - as usual. I wonder if the samples Holly spoke about would ever been published entirely?
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Offline Talya

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2011, 02:49:36 PM »
Thank you aleksandr pavlovich and Sunny !  Given their mother's use of codes,( like the heart code none can crack! ) and the last two children's closeness,  I would be surprised if they didn't have some private means  to communcate to each other ...by until there is some proof, it remains speculation

Heart code?! Did I miss something? Could someone PM me with this?

just an anecdote; me and 2 of my friends used to write codes in other languages. For example, if we wanted to say hello in English, we would write the characters in Russian, or our other language alphabet. Could Alexei and Anastasia and Maria have written English words in Russian script? That Anostoie could be the key to breaking the language. Are there any other examples of Tarabar?
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Offline Sunny

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2011, 03:28:13 PM »
Holly posted this a while ago in the "Just to put this out there--Romanov style" thread.
I've only seen it mentioned in one book that I can remember.

Maria, Anastasia and Alexei would use the coded language to write each other messages and exchange them secretly. It appears to me to just be a change in spellings and such.
Here's the only sample published so far:

"To Her Highness stupid Marie and Anostoie. Thanks for thesnakck I rekon well befightin. M. A. Alexei. 1914."
Apparently Maria was included too.

Stupid Maria AND stupid Anastasia or just stupid maria AND (not stupid) anastasia?
Poor Maria, always talking about her as a stupid!
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Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2011, 08:31:07 PM »
author=blessOTMA link=topic=16714.msg491636#msg491636 date=1312613907]
....Given their mother's use of codes,( like the heart code none can crack! ) ...
 Heart code?! Did I miss something? 
in her 1913 diary entries  Olga usual says  something like " Mama's heart is 21/2 " or " Mama's heart a 3 " and it's difficult to know if the higher number means better or worse. It doesn't follow a pattern that is  easy to see. If fact there are often two numbers and a poster ( nena? ) suggested this might mean Olga is recordering how her mother's heart and legs are .....but lord knows

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Offline Talya

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2011, 12:54:27 PM »
Interesting....
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Offline Olga Bernice

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2011, 10:08:42 AM »
Before I say anything else, I'd like to say how much the interview touched me, and GD Andrea, keep writing!

But anyway, I had not known that MAA had a secret language! Of course, with their knowledge of languages, it couldn't have been too hard to make one up. I only know English, and it would seem difficult for me to make up a language (Well, I have been studying French, but this is basically where I've gotton: Ou est la telephone? (Pronounced: Oo ay la tay-lay-phon) Where is the telephone? =D)!
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Offline Sunny

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2011, 10:30:38 AM »
mmm... telephone is french is masculine... LE telephone XD LOL
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Offline Olga Bernice

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2011, 04:06:54 PM »
Oh, okay, if you say so! *Dries tears* (just kidding!)

Back to topic - was this secret language of MAA's just spoken, or was it written too?
Mashka . . . Olya . . . Tatya . . . Nastya

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aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #54 on: August 08, 2011, 06:04:39 PM »
       For "Olga Bernice" and your question on the "secret language":    I have gone back and (somewhat quickly) researched what now comprehensively appears to be the EARLIEST appearance of the so-called (invented) language name "Tarabar" on this Forum.
       In the thread," The Imperial children's sad,sheltered life?", Post # 93, Dec. 7, 2005,"  "Sarushka" says: "Slightly off-topic: does anybody know anything about the secret language Anastasia & Alexei invented?  I've got the name of it written down somewhere...."
       On the same day, in Post #96, December 7, 2005, she responds to a question from "Olga Anna" as follows:  "Anastasia & Alexei called their language 'Tarabar.' Unfortunately my notes don't say where I read this. I can promise that it was a non-fiction source though!" This then is followed (same thread) by Post #153, Jan. 31, 2006, in which "Tsarina Liz" shows the relevant quote from # 96 and comments on it.
       To my knowledge, "Tarabar" is next mentioned by name in Post # 718 of the thread, "Re: Just to put this out there.....Romanov Style"  by poster "Holly": "It was called Tarabar."  In response to another poster's comments, the poster,"Holly," on Jan. 17, 2011, replies in Post # 720: " I've only seen it in one book that I can remember."  The only extant written example (able to be quoted from the source) followed in the same posting, #720. (Unfortunately, a follow-up on the book's name was apparently never remembered and posted.)

       Therefore, in response to your question (August 8, 2011) of written versus spoken "Tarabar", only a single written alleged example has been posted on the Forum, to my knowledge.  Potentially, the 2 (or 3) youngest siblings would resort (on appropriate occasions) to a spoken version, but IMO it would have been very brief in nature. Still, we have no authoritatively documented source with which to refer. It would seem to be perhaps traceable to a single reference/source?
                                                                           Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 06:18:13 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

TsarAlexeiII

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2011, 06:36:12 PM »
It would seem to be perhaps traceable to a single reference/source?

I don't know if either of these are the original source, but on the entire internet, the word "tarabar" only appears twice in relation to the Romanovs: A blog (http://anastasia1901.webs.com/thelifeofanastasia.htm) and some site about Paris, France (http://www.parisia.com/paris/romanov/paris.php?id=13)

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2011, 07:27:49 PM »
It would seem to be perhaps traceable to a single reference/source?

I don't know if either of these are the original source, but on the entire internet, the word "tarabar" only appears twice in relation to the Romanovs: A blog (http://anastasia1901.webs.com/thelifeofanastasia.htm) and some site about Paris, France (http://www.parisia.com/paris/romanov/paris.php?id=13)

Thank you very much indeed for the above information.  I have looked at them both.  These are my impressions/reactions.

  I am certain that I know of the first poster, who is using a similiar, but different, name, and still resides in the same UK city.  She has been/is active on MANY boards as you can see. She apparently has the feelings that she is a (how shall I say this?) potential modern-day "recreation" of the Grandduchess Anastasia N. This can be seen, among other places, on the Forum "Web Amici" (early 2010) but petulantly retracts her "impression" when challenged there. The article posted by her to which you reference is, IMO, NOTHING like her own compositions in grammar and punctuation (having read a number of her postings over the years), and I personally think is copied, which is not in itself a problem, but NO attribution is given, thus "Tarabar," cannot IMO, be attributed in a historical, authoritative fashion. To sum it up, I'll "pass" on this one.

  The second article, though also interesting in mentioning the word "Tarabar," again gives no stated researchable attribution.  I do not know the "author."  

  I throughly understand that you are not vouching for the validity of either of these articles, but I DO appreciate your kindness in bringing them to my attention.  
                                                                                                 Regards,  AP.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 07:55:13 PM by aleksandr pavlovich »

TsarAlexeiII

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2011, 09:00:54 PM »
Quote
...and I personally think is copied, which is not in itself a problem, but NO attribution is given, thus "Tarabar," cannot IMO, be attributed in a historical, authoritative fashion. To sum it up, I'll "pass" on this one.

The second article, though also interesting in mentioning the word "Tarabar," again gives no stated researchable attribution.  I do not know the "author." 

That is why I made a distinction between the two. A blog is only reliable to the extent that its claims are sourced. The other website seems to be a "real" website, meaning it is not a blog and appears professional, but since the author is unknown, no sources are listed, and we have absolutely no idea why a site about Paris even lists this information, I am inclined to think nether are necessarily reliable.

Quote
  I throughly understand that you are not vouching for the validity of either of these articles, but I DO appreciate your kindness in bringing them to my attention.

You're welcome! I searched on Blackle: "Tarabar" "Romanov" and "Tarabar" "Anastasia" (quotes are for exact searches) and only found those two.

Until somebody knows information they are certain about, let's end the Tarabar conversation, because it is unrelated to the thread title, takes up space on the board, and the same information is given over and over.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2011, 09:05:26 PM by император Алексей II »

aleksandr pavlovich

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2011, 09:11:37 PM »
It certainly appears that we have "plumbed the depths" of "Tarabar" in terms of the Forum and other presently available resources. I've no objection to closure, unless someone comes forward with provable source/s.  I have appreciated the opportunity to contribute.  Regards,  AP.

TsarAlexeiII

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Re: Dr Wladimir Derevenko and his son Kolya (Nikolai)
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2011, 11:00:13 PM »
It certainly appears that we have "plumbed the depths" of "Tarabar" in terms of the Forum and other presently available resources. I've no objection to closure, unless someone comes forward with provable source/s.  I have appreciated the opportunity to contribute.  Regards,  AP.

Same here. Thanks.