Author Topic: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof  (Read 195659 times)

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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #180 on: July 15, 2010, 12:30:21 PM »
Obviously I see it differently.  It has no actual  historical importance.  Used mainly as a summer retreat and was only finished in 1897, so used less than 20 years. The exterior was mock Victorian Gothic and the interiors were art nouveau ['which I have bee led to beieve were actually salvaged]
 There are  plans for a reconstruction, but nothing definite has been agreed upon. Other palaces of far more importance [as well as age] take priority. This all takes a great deal of money. The lower dacha simply is not worth it, unless you want to write the check.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline I-TsarevichAlexei13

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #181 on: July 15, 2010, 12:55:28 PM »
Robert, no offense. But do you not particularly like Nicholas & ALexandra, and their style and tastes? I really think people make this thread WAY TOO public, like medical conditions, and things like private things.. people do not need to have knowing these things, not that this is part of the topic at hand, but people generally make Nicholas and ALexandra out to be idiots ruling the biggest country in the world.

and again I argue that it would not be worthless to restore it. Its a geuinely beautiful nad characteristic architecture. It did most certainly have great importance other then being the family's summer residence, (one of them)

but what do I know? so yeah....

God Bless!

Slava Bogu!

Mama clutched my hand, as she smiled weakly.. Then the door handle turned and they walked in.. her smile faded... and the clutch on my hand grew tighter...

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #182 on: July 15, 2010, 03:07:50 PM »
I-T... you miss the point entirely. Why do you think everything is a personal attack on N&A ? Thishas absolutely NOTHING to do with  N&A, whether I like them or not.
  I told you before, I will post those thoughts on the appropriate threads, if  asked and I feel like it.
 This is about the  artistic and historical value of a recontrustion of a useless and valueless dacha,  finished  in 1897, rarely used and of no real importance.
 This sort of folly [mock Gothic/Victorian] is NOT Russian style and not even of much other than a sop between   St.P and trotting off to the yacht.
 The interior, which I have been led to believe, had been salvaged as it was art nouveau style and  medium quality. Not very popular, but good examples. Some of which may well be in Hermitage furniture galleries.
 I still maintain that the the funds, resources and talents  would be  better used at  older, more important palaces. Not some romanticised  sea shore  middle class, bourgeoisie  villa.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline I-TsarevichAlexei13

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #183 on: July 15, 2010, 03:31:44 PM »
Excuse me but no offense, How can you say The Lower Dacha was "useless, and valueless" !? You didn't live there, and you shouldn't say such things. I realise this is a forum built on academic understandings, but The Lower Dacha was more then a useless building, It had great value, and was very useful, did not Nicholas II, and his family vacation there, go to the beach, drink tea??? How can you say it was useless? I am sorry, but I do not agree with you. It's rather harsh saying that, I wonder what Nicholas and Alexandra would think... today's world we live in..... so different...]

God Bless!

Slava Bogu!

Mama clutched my hand, as she smiled weakly.. Then the door handle turned and they walked in.. her smile faded... and the clutch on my hand grew tighter...

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #184 on: July 15, 2010, 04:19:01 PM »
Again, I-T,  no offence taken nor meant.
 However you are again romanticising an innate object
 The dacha had no  state function and was merely a holiday stop.
 IMO , Livadia is a far superior example  for display and function.
 You also force me  to  say that my  opinions on the  IF  do not match yours, which I can tell are rather devotional and, beg your pardon, immature. That is fine, for you, but confine those thoughts to the appropriate threads, please.
 This thread is about a defunct  "palace" and it's worth as a reconstruction project. Not another shrine to  the N&A cult.
 Cheers,
 Robert
 BTW, have you even been there ? I have.   Just not worth the effort.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

RomanovMartyrs

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #185 on: July 15, 2010, 07:13:35 PM »
To the question, "Should Lower Dacha be restored?" I tend to agree with Robert_Hall.

This is because, having been in Russia myself, and told quite a lot about the restorations of things while I was there, I see how much funding and time go into the care and maintenance of the most historical buildings (i.e. painting Catherine Palace over every year with paint derived from real gold). This is the Russian people's tax dollars at work, and while I too, believe in the importance of restoring the most important of the palaces to their full potential, I disagree that ALL should be.

As has been said, we already have the following restored with complete or partial dedication to the last imperial family:

1. Winter Palace
2. Alexander Palace
3. Catherine Palace
4. Livadia Palace

(And a few others I haven't listed, such as Pavlovsk, Kremlin, etc.; Not to mention the countless cathedrals which dedicate at least some of their funding to the upkeep of Romanov icons, artifacts, and so on and so forth.) While it is important that we remember Russia's colorful history, it is not necessary to reconstruct all things that were once theirs, simply for the sake of those who hold sentimental attachment to it. There are a good deal more people within Russia who would rather see government funding help improve education, medicine, and standard of living in general. The palaces mentioned above adequately preserve Russia's history. Reconstructing costly little vacation homes of the past denies Russian people of the present their right to monetary aide.

That said, however, something I do NOT agree with you about, Robert_Hall, is the treatment of other members here. This is a scholarly forum to discuss facts concerning history. The academics I know personally do not behave in the manner with which you have been replying to I-TsarevichAlexei13. Whether anyone agrees or disagrees on a point is one thing. But to name-call (And I use your words, "immature" and the idea of making a "shrine to the N&A cult") is another thing entirely. Yes, explain your point of view. Yes, you have a right to voice the knowledge you have obtained. But to throw in a "Have you even been there? I have." is quite unnecessary. Might it not have been better to state that you have been there and you are basing your opinions on your experience? I think so. No one needs to demean another person to make their argument more sound.

And, to play devil's advocate here, you previously mentioned that the Lower Dacha should not be restored, using it's age (finished in 1897) as a basis for your argument. It should be noted, in that case, that Cathedral on the Spilled Blood was not completed until 1907, and today still undergoes restoration (in fact when I last visited there it was having work on the domes). The Dacha was a place of birth of a boy who was once Tsarevich of all the Russias. The Cathedral was the place of death of another. If we are only basing the argument that the Lower Dacha should not be restored on its age, and historical significance, then you must also assert that there is no reason to restore the above mentioned Cathedral again.

-RomanovMartyrs

ETA: I am probably a member of the so-called "N&A cult" of which you speak, and I still do not believe in restoring this building. Just thought I would add that. Just because I revere them does not mean my opinion of them can be lumped into something that you deem "cult"-like.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2010, 07:34:42 PM by RomanovMartyrs »

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #186 on: July 15, 2010, 07:44:24 PM »
I have duly noted your  comments, RM... and yes, I am  a bit opinionated about  some of these things.  Some items I would retract and apologise for.
 However, my opinions remain steadfast.
 As for  monuments,   the Spilled blood is a monument to an historical event.
 The dacha, well so what if Alexei was born there ? Heirs were born all over the country. Should all of them  be restored?
 There is much value in Russian patrimony.  This place is simply not worth the bother and COST, in  my opinion.
 As I said,  no matter what my feelings of the Romanovs are.
 I also apologise to IT if he took offence at my "been there" comment. I certainly meant none.  However I have and it is a trek. make it accessible to the few that would actually visit it  would be a major effort and expense.
 The lake villas were recently completely restored, at major cost and effort and are  now  drawing summer  audiences, but not enough to pay for the  work.
 Also, rtemember, the dacha is a summer  place.  useless  3/4th of the year. Not likely  to draw enough attention to pay for itself.
 Many practicalities must be taken into account  in these matters. And,  in my OPINION, the dacha is low on the list of "things to do"
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline lilianna

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #187 on: July 16, 2010, 03:45:53 PM »


According to Vadim Znamenov in July 2008 - The first stage of works will remove the rubble of destroyed buildings. It will build on the remaining historical foundation. Save as whole fragments of walls, which then can be built into new construction ", - said Banner.

From museumification palace, in his opinion, the problems will not: Peterhof retained a large number of furniture, china, original photographs and other items of the Romanov family.
 

http://aquaviva.ru/news/2008-07-22/862.html



Offline Douglas

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #188 on: July 16, 2010, 08:40:36 PM »
I do understand Robert's impressions of the location but here is what I discovered.

I read the recent article in Russian about the rebuilding of the Lower Dacha.  From what the Director said he appears to echo the feelings of the Russian people about the events of WW II.  Apparently the Russians are still  rather upset, I could use the P word, that the Germans destroyed this structure as they retreated from Russian at the end of the War.   That may be their main but quietly spoken motive.  They still want to get-even with the Germans and a rebuilding is the way to do that.

Historically speaking, the 'palace' was used as the signing place for the Duma Documents in 1905, besides the other events already discussed in this thread.  Also, the Director emphatically states that there is plenty of money to rebuild the Lower Dacha.  The feeling I get from him is  that without this palace in place, a jewel of the crown is missing.  This Director also may want this as his lasting contribution.

Evidently the grounds will be prepared for reconstruction without further ado, baring some unforeseen development.  

  

« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 08:55:55 PM by Douglas »

Offline Douglas

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #189 on: July 18, 2010, 08:11:09 PM »
View from the sea.  Lower Dacha.


Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #190 on: July 18, 2010, 08:59:23 PM »
I am well aware that I am in the minority opinion,  however, I still  see this pile as a sentimental heap of rubbish Be that as it may, I am not paying  for the reconstruction, the Russian taxpayers are.
Life may not be the party we expected, but while we are here, might as well dance..

Do you want the truth, or my side of the story ?- Hank Ketchum.

Offline londo954

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #191 on: July 18, 2010, 11:41:19 PM »
It does fit into the neogothic revival of Nicholas's reign (the Pan Slavic movement)

Offline PAVLOV

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #192 on: August 10, 2010, 08:19:51 AM »
Actually the more I look at the drawings and old photos of this building, the uglier it becomes. It reminds me of one of those haunted houses on the Hudson River one reads about in an Edgar Allan Poe murder novel.

Offline Condecontessa

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #193 on: May 17, 2011, 08:04:31 PM »
I just noticed that you can see the lower dacha at the right of the pic.

http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/dl_crosscollex/romanov/oneITEM.asp?pid=1002173&iid=1002173&srchtype=

Offline Alexander1917

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Re: The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof
« Reply #194 on: May 18, 2011, 04:58:37 PM »
I just noticed that you can see the lower dacha at the right of the pic.

http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/dl_crosscollex/romanov/oneITEM.asp?pid=1002173&iid=1002173&srchtype=

sure? looks for me more like the view from the mon plesir over the small bay to the piont where now-a-days the high speed boats arrive... the is alaso a smal buliding - I thourght museum of maritime thinks - just forgotten...