Alexandra Feodorovna on Trial- What were her crimes as Empress of Russia?

[Forum Admin]

OK, I've tried to track down the Better one Rasputin than ten fits of hysterics original source.   There is none directly to Nicholas II.  It appeared in a 1922 piece called "Twilight of the Tsars" by one V.V. Shulgin, in an emigre publication (of Liberal, Monarchist Conservative politics), where it was cited as "a well known sentence of the Emperor's".

Prior, it appears in "The Minister of Evil The Secret History of RASPUTIN'S Betrayal of Russia" by William Le Queux, Cassell and Company, Ltd London, New York, Toronto and Melbourne First Published August 1918..
"Madame Vyrubova one day told me that the count (Freedericks) had that afternoon, in her presence, inquired of the Emperor:
Who is this new Starets of whom everybody is talking?"
"Oh! merely a simple mujik whose prayers carry right to Heaven," was His Majesty's answer. "He is endowed with most sublime faith."
The count then warned the Tsar of the displeasure which Rasputin's presence at Court was creating on every hand, adding:
"There are rumours that he is a mere drunken libertine. Make inquiries for yourself of his doings in Petrograd."
"Well, my dear Count," laughed the Emperor carelessly, "better one Starets than ten hysterics.", at pg 54.

NOW, here's the problem:  Le Queux writes in the prologue "I received from the same sources in Russia a bulky manuscript upon very thin paper which contained certain confessions, revelations, and allegations made by its writer, Féodor Rajevski, who acted as the mock-saint's secretary and body-servant"  Well, we know, then that this is a HOAX document, why? because "Feodor Rjevski" wasn't Rasputin's secretary.  His actual secretary was Aron Simanovich, who didn't publish his own book until 1921.

The real problem is that Orlando Figes quotes this as accurate, so does Greg King (in two books) and many other sources.  This is a prime example of one writer not searching out the actual truth of the source, then it gets included into the "history" as "accurate".  There is no first hand attribution to Nicholas II!  Vyroubova never says it in her books.  Freedericks never wrote it down...

I would, personally NOT place great faith in the accuracy.  Amazing how stuff like this gets to become "factual" and "accurate"...

[Vanya Ivanova]

Alixz, the last thing I wanted to do was issue intructions or annoy you. The only reason I was so uncompromising regarding this quote is that, quite frankly, you don't tend to 'take any prisoners' yourself over such matters and I really respect you for that.

I am appreciative of your looking into it again. We are never going to see eye to eye over Alexandra Feodorovna at the end of day but I have really enjoyed 'locking horns' with you over this and hope it hasn't just been an irritation from your perspective. I've learnt a great deal from you and as you stated you have been studying all this longer than I've been alive and I'm genuinely humbled by that.

Forum Admin, thank you so much for also looking into the quote and providing so much detail, again its fascinating to see how these things get started and if indeed there is any basis. The how, when and why of how these 'quotes' take root I find really interesting. I've got to get a book on Simanovich now!

[TimM]

The real problem is that Orlando Figes quotes this as accurate, so does Greg King (in two books) and many other sources.  This is a prime example of one writer not searching out the actual truth of the source, then it gets included into the "history" as "accurate".  There is no first hand attribution to Nicholas II!  Vyroubova never says it in her books.  Freedericks never wrote it down...

I would, personally NOT place great faith in the accuracy.  Amazing how stuff like this gets to become "factual" and "accurate"...

Stuff like this tends to creep into belief, without it being true. 

Never once did Sherlock Holmes say "Elementary, my dear Watson." in ANY of Arthur Conan Doyle's books, but many believe he did (of course, the phrase has been used in the many Holmes movies made over the years).

Another example is "Beam me up, Scotty." from Star Trek, in fact that phrase is never once uttered.  The closest we get is in the movie Star Trek IV, in which Kirk says "Scotty, beam me up."

Stuff like this happens.

[Forum Admin]

not to mention that Rick never said "Play it again, Sam" in Casablanca! 

[Alixz]

No, I believe he said,  "You played it for her, you can play it for me."  "If she can stand it. I can. Play it!"

FA thank you for looking for that "quote". 

[IvanVII]

So then how much blame do we place on NII for all the blame and grief directed at AF. It has been said over and over by various sources how he disdained confrontation. Did that perhaps contribute to his wife's lack of popularity. Failing to put her detractors "in check" if you will, or perhaps even her or his own mother. No matter your point of view; as everyone seems to want to blame  someone else (AF, Rasputin, various members of the family) if NII had only confronted somebody over the issue.

[Kalafrana]

I would also mention that William le Queux was a leading popular thriller writer of the day. His novel about a fictitious German invasion of Britain was one of the factors in the development of spy mania before and during WW1. I would treat him as a source as I would Frederick Forsyth! Plausible in the way he writes, but you need to do your own research.

Ann