czar Nicholas with military, Identification order uniform

[aleksandr pavlovich]

Yes, Mike, that is the cross to which I was referring.  The ribbon which suspends the medal, is mainly obscured by the large badge of the Knight's Grand Cross pendant from the collar of the Royal Victorian Order, effectively obliterating the center stripe of the St. Vladimir ribbon.  The relative darkness of the St. Vladimir cross, I take to be the artist's perception in rendering it.  (The color of the one on the original bar that I saw, was not a "Black Vladimir.")   Regards,  AP

[DanielB]

AP is right : here’s the original photo :
http://faculty.unlv.edu/pwerth/NicholasII.jpg
Nicholas II is wearing his usual Russian kolodka (circa 1908) with his Cross of St. Vladimir (far left, colorized in black, right under the British Royal Victorian Order Cross and Collar), his medals for Alexander III’s coronation & death and his 2 Foreign Orders (Danish Order of Dannebrog & Greek Order of the Saviour) all with Russian style ribbons. Obviously a British medal (with a British style ribbon) was added at the right. As the artist got most ribbon colors wrong I suppose this portrait was done by a British artist for the British public when Nicholas II was given his rank of Admiral of the Fleet in 1908.

[DanielB]

Thanks Daniel, it's interesting to know that alot of the images I have of Nicholas II are not of him in Russian uniform, would you happen to have him in admiral of the Russian navy or Commander in Chief of the army uniforms? Or whatever other uniforms he had for Russian units.

Richard,
I don’t have any representation of Nicholas II as admiral of the Russian Navy – and no one has either – because he never got to this rank! Oddly enough, when his father died he was a colonel (which was unusual for an Heir to the Throne, as the previous ones had been promoted to a rank of general at a younger age than Nicholas was when he became emperor :26). Some members of his family and entourage thought the new Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Army & Navy should promote himself to the rank of general (and admiral) as, technically, he would have to give orders to officers of a higher military rank than his own.  Out ot respect for his late father though, he stubbornly refused and until his death remained a colonel. As you have already seen, he nevertheless accepted honorary ranks of Admiral, General and even Field-Marshall in foreign armies as it was customary to exchange those as « gifts » between Sovereigns.

In the Navy, the rank equal to colonel was captain (1st rank). Here is a photo of the Emperor in a naval full dress uniform:


And a color portrait :


More about his many other uniforms later.

[DanielB]

AP is right : here’s the original photo :
http://faculty.unlv.edu/pwerth/NicholasII.jpg
Nicholas II is wearing his usual Russian kolodka (circa 1908) with his Cross of St. Vladimir (far left, colorized in black, right under the British Royal Victorian Order Cross and Collar), his medals for Alexander III’s coronation & death and his 2 Foreign Orders (Danish Order of Dannebrog & Greek Order of the Saviour) all with Russian style ribbons. Obviously a British medal (with a British style ribbon) was added at the right. As the artist got most ribbon colors wrong I suppose this portrait was done by a British artist for the British public when Nicholas II was given his rank of Admiral of the Fleet in 1908.

Found one of my earlier posts with a photo of the Tsar's last "kolodka" aleksandr pavlovich wrote about:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=3735.msg82042#msg82042

I stand to be corrected about the Danish Order of Dannebrog as it rather seems to be the Cross of Honour of the Dannebrog as I wrote in my post.

[Student of History]

Gentlemen, I am astounded by your knowledge!  Thank you so much for sharing so generously, you have opened up a whole new world in my study of Russian history.
I find it intriguing that TNII refused to promote himself given the administrative and practical disruption to the 'chain of command'... I wonder if it was to spite or in support of his father's wishes...

[DanielB]

Thanks Daniel, it's interesting to know that alot of the images I have of Nicholas II are not of him in Russian uniform, would you happen to have him in admiral of the Russian navy or Commander in Chief of the army uniforms? Or whatever other uniforms he had for Russian units.

Richard:
As promised, more about the uniforms of Nicholas II:
Their was no specific uniform of Commander-in-Chief but you have the choice of uniforms as he was Colonel-in-Chief (« Shef ») of 37 regiments or other units, along with 2 Military Schools. He was also enrolled into a dozen of other regiments and another military school. He was allowed to wear the uniform of any of these units, which he usually did for regimental reviews and holidays: considering that each regiment had various dress orders (parade, everyday, service, winter & summer dress, etc.) you’ll understand he had a huge military wardrobe! Many of his uniforms have survived and are in museums in Russia.

Here is a list of all the regiments and units of which he was Chief, some of which he received at his birth (1868), others later, often as gifts for his birthday or namesday (when he became emperor, he would also name himself as « shef », often taking the place of his late father):

Chief of the following :
Guards Infantry regiments:

Life-Guards Reserve Infantry Regt (May 6, 1873) later known as His Majesty’s 3rd Rifles
LG Volynsky (Dec. 19, 1879)
Life-Guards Preobrazhensky Regt. (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG Semenovsky (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG Izmailovsky (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG Egersky (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG Grenadiersky (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG Pavlovsky (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG His Majesty’s 1st Rifles (1894); enrolled since his birth
3rd Finnish Rifle Battalion (1894-1905)
LG « Imperial Family » 4th Rifles (1894); enrolled since his birth
His Majesty’s Own Combined Infantry Regt (1894)

Guards Cavalry Regiments :

LG Horse Regt (Horse Guards) (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG His Majesty’s Cuirassiers (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG His Majesty’s Hussars (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG His Majesty’s Lancers (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG His Majesty’s Cossacks (1894); enrolled since his birth
Ural Cossack Sotnia (Jan. 02, 1899; enrolled since his birth) later part of LG Combined Cossack Regt (Aug. 9, 1906)
His Majesty’s Own Cossack Escort (« Konvoï ») (1894); enrolled since his birth

Guards Artillery and Sapper units:

1st Life-Guards Artillery Brigade (1894); enrolled since his birth
His Majesty’s 1st Life-Guards Horse Artillery Battery (1894)
His Majesty’s 6th Life-Guards Don Cossack Horse Artillery Battery (1894); enrolled since his birth
LG Sapper Regt. (1894); enrolled since his birth
His Majesty’s Own Railroad Regt. (1915)

Other regiments, units & establishments :

His Majesty’s 65th Moskovsky Infantry Regt (May 6, 1868)
H.M. 1st Siberian Rifles (May 11, 1891)
H.M. 17th Nizhgorodsky Dragoons (Nov. 27, 1892)
H.M. 13th « Tsar Alexis Mikhailovich » Erivansky Life-Grenadiers (1894); enrolled since 1875
80th « Gen. Feld-Marshal Pr. Baryatinsky » Kabardinsky Infantry Regt (1894)
H.M. 84th Shirvansky Infantry Regt (1894)
1st « Emperor Alexander II » Ekaterinoslavsky Life-Grenadiers (1896)
12th « Emperor Alexander III » Astrakhansky Grenadiers (July 1900)
16th « Emperor Alexander III » Rifles (June 6, 1914; enrolled since Dec. 6, 1909)
H.M. 6th Kubansky Plastun Battalion (May 1915)
1st His Majesty’s « Ermak Timofeev » Siberian Cossacks (Dec. 1916)
H.M. 1st « Generalissimus Suvorov » Don Cossacks (Dec. 1916)
H.M. 1st Kizlyaro-Grebensky « General Ermolov » Terek Cossacks (Dec. 1916)

Pavlovskoe Military School
Alexandrovskoe Military School
 

List of the regiments, units & establishments in which he was enrolled without being Chief:
Guards Equipage (1868)
Her Imperial Majesty Empress Maria Feodorovna’s Chevalier Guards (1868)
His Imperial Highness the Heir Tsesarevich’s Life-Guards Atamansky Cossacks (1868;  as Heir to the Throne, Nicholas II was Chief of this regiment from 1881-1894)
LG Grodnensky Hussars (1868)
4th « His Imperial Highness the Heir Tsesarevich’s » Life-Guards Horse Artillery Battery (1868)
Her Imperial Majesty Empress Maria Feodorovna’s Life-Guards Cuirassiers (July 22, 1880)
LG Horse Artillery Brigade (1894)
LG 2nd Tsarskoselsky Rifles (April 27, 1903)
18th « King Christian IX of Denmark » Seversky Dragoons (July 30, 1907)
Her Imperial Majesty Empress Alexandra Feodorovna’s Crimean Horse Regt (1909)
His Imperial Highness the Heir Tsesarevich’s 1st Volgsky Terek Cossack Troop (1916?)
Konstantinovsky Artillery School

Uniforms :
Here are a late XIXth century French illustrations showing Nicholas II in 6 various Guard Regiments' uniforms (some have changed in the early XXth century) :
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=13123.0

Have a look at this thread :
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6730.0

You’ll find 20 pages of portraits (paintings) of Nicholas II there, most of them in military uniform. Unfortunately very few are identified but I would be happy to help with any you might want be interested in.

Then, you can browse the following threads with photos of Nicholas II : many uniforms too :
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=13960.0
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=13210.0
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1258.0
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1255.0

Finally you can have a look at these repros of Colonel Shenk’s color plates published in 1910-11. On the left, officers’ uniform, on the right : enlisted men. Colors aren’t always perfect but they’re useful.
http://www.xenophon-mil.org/rusarmy/shenk/shenklist.htm

I think all this should keep you busy for a while!

[DanielB]

Student of History :
Responding to this quote  : « What a stunning jacket! Yes they are the swirls I was referring.  Although I have also seen a uniform with a double row (plain with no swirls) secured in three places.  Think a piece of cord wrapped around the top and bottom of a (gold?)button on the left, centre and right of a jacket.  Starting with the first double line from shoulder to shoulder and repeated to the waist of the jacket approx: an inch or two apart.
In the absence of an image the closest to a visual representation I can do, is:

0=====0====0
0====0====0
0====0====0

Have you ever come across a Russian uniform like this by any chance? »
------------
Unfortunately your description doesn’t ring any bell. Did it have only 3 rows of cords? Was the jacket or tunic quite long? The old style Streltsy uniforms had some cords like this but they had 5 or 6 rows of them. So did a project for « new » uniforms done for Nicholas II (based on these old style caftans) but the drawings I have show 5 or 6 rows of cords too. This project never came into being but – oddly enough! – it inspired the early Soviet uniforms which had 3 rows of 2 buttons cloth pieces on their shirts & long coats.

Now regarding Hussars' uniforms, here are 1910 colour plates showing all the Hussar Regiments. This one shows the 2 Guards Hussar Regiments (His Majesty’s in red & blue, Grodno Hussars in raspberry & green) bottom row left (for each regiment: officers on the left, enlisted men on the right) :
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/5.htm

Starting on the bottom row of this plate are the Line regiments :
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/17.htm
Here are the others :
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/18.htm
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/19.htm

As you can see, they had very colourful uniforms. The jacket you found stunning ( http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/2031A.jpg )
belonged to a junior officer from the 3rd Elizavetgradsky « Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna » Hussar Regiment. Olga was named its Chief for her 16th birthday. As a special honour, the Regiment later received a white pelisse worn on the shoulders.

More about her regiment here :
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2791.0

As all the others, Olga’s hussars looked even more stunning with all their accoutrements. Here’s a photo from Gerard Gorokhoff very interesting book « The Russian Imperial Cavalry » showing a full dress uniform of a junior officer from the 11th Iziumsky Hussars : in 1912, as a special honour, their tunic (dolman) went from dark blue to red and they received a dark blue pelisse. Unlike most Line Hussar regiments, they also had the Guards’ pattern chain gimp (woven braid) instead of the usual hussar braid. The pattern for the zigzag laced pouch belt was common to all Line regiments and the silver sash belt was the same for all Hussars (Guards & Line) :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/Hussars-copie1.gif

Now here’s a photo of a junior officer from His Majesty’s Hussars in full dress. Quite similar to the Iziumsky except it had a pouch belt pattern specific to the regiment. The beaver fur busby with the star of St. Andrew (instead of a double-headed eagle plate) was specific to the 2 Guard Hussar regiments.
 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/1006B-copie.jpg

Here’s the regiment’s sabretache with its elaborate embroideries which, alone, must have cost a fortune!:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/1006N.jpg

And here’s a photo of the beaver fur-trimmed white pelisse worn by the regiment’s officers :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/1005C-copie.jpg

With all this, along with their richly embroidered saddle cloth, His Majesty’s Guards Hussars were said to have the most splendid (and expensive!) uniform of the Russian Army. It was probably the case!

BTW Nicholas II chose this regiment’s uniform to wear for his wedding :
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/HM001133.jpg?size=67&uid=9D620D9B-2CA3-4740-ADD9-654606DB8A22
His tunic has survived. I have seen his red tunic (along with his sabretache, visor cap & leather boots) at an exhibition in the USA. After his wedding the tunic had been stored away and labeled «В этом доломане Его Bеличество брaкосочетался сохранять навсегда» (In this dolman His Majesty was married, preserve forever.) The monarchy wasn't preserved but the last monarch's dolman was! It now can be seen on display at the Alexander Palace in Tsarskoe Selo, not far from where the Tsar’s Dressing Room was.

Now the other Guards Hussar Regiment : the Grodno Hussars. Here’s a nice colour portrait of Spanish Prince Jaime de Borbon who served – and fought - in the regiment for a while.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/jacquier_bourbon_big.jpg
He was viewed by some as the legitimate Heir to both the Thrones of Spain and France, no less! More about him here (with a photo in his Russian Hussar uniform) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime,_Duke_of_Madrid

(Interestingly enough, at the same time, another French prince, Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte - considered by some as « Napoleon VI » - also served in a Russian Guards’ Cavalry Regiment : Her Majesty’s Guards Lancers, which he commanded 1897-1902. I don’t know if those 2 claimants to the French Throne were on speaking terms!)

The Grodno Hussars had silver braid and lace. Here is their less elaborate raspberry & silver sabretache :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/P17-copie.jpg

[Imperial.Opal]

Hi, Daniel

 Great to see you again on this forum with your valuable wealth of information , I always look forward to your knowledge and research on these subjects
 Cheers
 Stephen

[Student of History]

Student of History :
Responding to this quote  : « What a stunning jacket! Yes they are the swirls I was referring.  Although I have also seen a uniform with a double row (plain with no swirls) secured in three places.  Think a piece of cord wrapped around the top and bottom of a (gold?)button on the left, centre and right of a jacket.  Starting with the first double line from shoulder to shoulder and repeated to the waist of the jacket approx: an inch or two apart.
In the absence of an image the closest to a visual representation I can do, is:

0=====0====0
0====0====0
0====0====0

Have you ever come across a Russian uniform like this by any chance? »------------
Unfortunately your description doesn’t ring any bell. Did it have only 3 rows of cords? Was the jacket or tunic quite long? The old style Streltsy uniforms had some cords like this but they had 5 or 6 rows of them. So did a project for « new » uniforms done for Nicholas II (based on these old style caftans) but the drawings I have show 5 or 6 rows of cords too. This project never came into being but – oddly enough! – it inspired the early Soviet uniforms which had 3 rows of 2 buttons cloth pieces on their shirts & long coats.

Now regarding Hussars' uniforms, here are 1910 colour plates showing all the Hussar Regiments. This one shows the 2 Guards Hussar Regiments (His Majesty’s in red & blue, Grodno Hussars in raspberry & green) bottom row left (for each regiment: officers on the left, enlisted men on the right) :
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/5.htm

Starting on the bottom row of this plate are the Line regiments :
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/17.htm
Here are the others :
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/18.htm
http://www.bibliotekar.ru/rusForma/19.htm

As you can see, they had very colourful uniforms. The jacket you found stunning ( http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/2031A.jpg )
belonged to a junior officer from the 3rd Elizavetgradsky « Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna » Hussar Regiment. Olga was named its Chief for her 16th birthday. As a special honour, the Regiment later received a white pelisse worn on the shoulders.

More about her regiment here :
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=2791.0

As all the others, Olga’s hussars looked even more stunning with all their accoutrements. Here’s a photo from Gerard Gorokhoff very interesting book « The Russian Imperial Cavalry » showing a full dress uniform of a junior officer from the 11th Iziumsky Hussars : in 1912, as a special honour, their tunic (dolman) went from dark blue to red and they received a dark blue pelisse. Unlike most Line Hussar regiments, they also had the Guards’ pattern chain gimp (woven braid) instead of the usual hussar braid. The pattern for the zigzag laced pouch belt was common to all Line regiments and the silver sash belt was the same for all Hussars (Guards & Line) :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/Hussars-copie1.gif

Now here’s a photo of a junior officer from His Majesty’s Hussars in full dress. Quite similar to the Iziumsky except it had a pouch belt pattern specific to the regiment. The beaver fur busby with the star of St. Andrew (instead of a double-headed eagle plate) was specific to the 2 Guard Hussar regiments.
 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/1006B-copie.jpg

Here’s the regiment’s sabretache with its elaborate embroideries which, alone, must have cost a fortune!:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/1006N.jpg

And here’s a photo of the beaver fur-trimmed white pelisse worn by the regiment’s officers :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/1005C-copie.jpg

With all this, along with their richly embroidered saddle cloth, His Majesty’s Guards Hussars were said to have the most splendid (and expensive!) uniform of the Russian Army. It was probably the case!

BTW Nicholas II chose this regiment’s uniform to wear for his wedding :
http://www.corbisimages.com/images/HM001133.jpg?size=67&uid=9D620D9B-2CA3-4740-ADD9-654606DB8A22
His tunic has survived. I have seen his red tunic (along with his sabretache, visor cap & leather boots) at an exhibition in the USA. After his wedding the tunic had been stored away and labeled «В этом доломане Его Bеличество брaкосочетался сохранять навсегда» (In this dolman His Majesty was married, preserve forever.) The monarchy wasn't preserved but the last monarch's dolman was! It now can be seen on display at the Alexander Palace in Tsarskoe Selo, not far from where the Tsar’s Dressing Room was.

Now the other Guards Hussar Regiment : the Grodno Hussars. Here’s a nice colour portrait of Spanish Prince Jaime de Borbon who served – and fought - in the regiment for a while.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/jacquier_bourbon_big.jpg
He was viewed by some as the legitimate Heir to both the Thrones of Spain and France, no less! More about him here (with a photo in his Russian Hussar uniform) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime,_Duke_of_Madrid

(Interestingly enough, at the same time, another French prince, Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte - considered by some as « Napoleon VI » - also served in a Russian Guards’ Cavalry Regiment : Her Majesty’s Guards Lancers, which he commanded 1897-1902. I don’t know if those 2 claimants to the French Throne were on speaking terms!)

The Grodno Hussars had silver braid and lace. Here is their less elaborate raspberry & silver sabretache :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v737/Atamanets/P17-copie.jpg

Hi Daniel,
Well, it has taken me a couple of days to go through everything, but I have emerged from the abyss! Thanks so much for enabling the detour into the Russian military historical unifroms closet! It was most enjoyable!
I'm not surprised my poor description didn't ring any bells!  From what I can ascertain there were about 5-6 rows.  The jacket  appeared to be a normal length and secured with the a light coloured waist belt (approx 3 rows of cloth).  The uniform looks to be quite understated, although the sleeves do appear to have brocade or what looks like a forearm protector.  There was no fancy sholder decoration (like TNII). The solider held a hat in hand which had a large star on its front with a long black plume at its back. He also had a long sword and what looks like a satchel with a (white?) border around the bottom and sides and what looked to be an emblem of a double headed eagle, which I haven't yet found anywhere.  Any further ideas? Do you know of any other armies besides the Russians that would carry a double-headed eagle crest?
Many thanks,
SOH

[DanielB]

Hi SOH,
Definitely seems to be a Hussars’ tunic. Could be understated for a number or reasons : a lower rank (enlisted man)’s tunic, a war-time tunic (some countries had them but not Russia), etc. The large star on the headdress could be the Life-Guards’ star of St. Andrew (although the Guards’ Hussars star wasn’t that big). The long black plume at the back of a hat doesn’t ring any Russian bell but I’ve seen a number of Russian soldiers who had their photos taken in fantasy uniforms and/or headdress, most probably to impress the folks at home! 

As for the double-headed eagle emblem, it was also used by the Austro-Hungarian Empire as well as the Kingdoms of Montenegro & Serbia.

Hard to tell much more without a photo…

[Student of History]

Hello again Daniel,
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I understand it is difficult sans photo.
All the best,

[toscany]

A friend sent me this photograph of the Tsar and Tsarevich. The centered German machine gun, is one that was captured by Russian troops.  With 14 million peasant drafts lead by an officer corps one percent of that size, the Russian army was short of every single thing except soldiers, bravery and enemies.

Tsar Nicholas II with Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich.
The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof, 1914.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=30436455&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=20553032932&aid=-1&id=1497778218&oid=20553032932

I want to learn how to simply post the photo.

HMB

[Student of History]

A friend sent me this photograph of the Tsar and Tsarevich. The centered German machine gun, is one that was captured by Russian troops.  With 14 million peasant drafts lead by an officer corps one percent of that size, the Russian army was short of every single thing except soldiers, bravery and enemies.

Tsar Nicholas II with Tsarevich Alexei Nikolaevich.
The Lower Dacha (New Palace), at Peterhof, 1914.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.php?pid=30436455&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=20553032932&aid=-1&id=1497778218&oid=20553032932

I want to learn how to simply post the photo.

HMB

Toscany, I think your link is dodgey...It doens't actually take you to your picture.  It could be operator error, but just incase it isn't, thought you might want to re-check it.
Have a lovely day.
SOH

[DanielB]

The link worked for me. The photo was taken shortly after the War began. As Pierre Gilliard recorded in his memoirs, two days after Alexei's 10th birthday, on Friday August 14 (N.S.),  before leaving to take his post at Army Headquarters, Grand-Duke Nicholas Nikolaevich came to Alexandria-Peterhof to present the first War trophy, a German machine gun. It's an official photo so Alexei is sitting on a chair to conceal the fact he was still unable to stand up after he had injured his ankle while boarding the Standart a few days before the War broke out. 

As for other ways to post photos, see this thread:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=771.0

[toscany]

Dear Daniel,

Yes, your are totally correct!  I thought it would be an interesting photo to show of Father and Son.  I thought it would be an interesting photo to share with the group...I apologize to anyone who was unable to access the URL.

I do have the photo here.  If anyone would like it, please email me,  harry.binkow@gmail.com

Best regards,

HMB