Author Topic: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.  (Read 51686 times)

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Offline Svetabel

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2009, 12:58:32 AM »
Not counting a couple of stillborns, there was a fourth daughter--Grand Duchess Elizaveta Nikolaevna.  She died very young, however; I think she was only three years old.  Does anyone know anything about her, or what happened to her?

There was no Elizaveta who died at 3 years old. More obviously there was a 6-7th month child, born and died the same day.

Offline Dru

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2009, 02:07:47 PM »
Really?  I could have sworn there was a third daughter named Elizaveta.  Interesting....

Offline Marc

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 05:12:40 PM »
Maybe you were browsing genealogy sites?Here it is stated that certain Grand Duchess Elisabeth,born in 1826 died young...

http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00143831&tree=LEO

Offline Dru

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 07:38:07 PM »
I did indeed see it on a genealogy site, and somewhere else, too.

Offline Svetabel

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2009, 12:54:13 AM »
Maybe you were browsing genealogy sites?Here it is stated that certain Grand Duchess Elisabeth,born in 1826 died young...

http://genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00143831&tree=LEO

And died the same day, had she lived more we'd know more about her.

Grandduchess Valeria

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2009, 03:39:30 AM »
I have heard about Elizaveta too and even more two stillborn daughters (born 1820 and 1823). Do you know something about that?

Offline Dru

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2009, 09:54:18 PM »
That's what I heard too, and the Elisasveta that I read about was born in 1826 and died in 1829.  But if Svetabel says this is incorrect, well, she's usually right, so I don't know what to make of it. :-\

Offline Svetabel

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2009, 01:11:16 AM »
That's what I heard too, and the Elisasveta that I read about was born in 1826 and died in 1829.  But if Svetabel says this is incorrect, well, she's usually right, so I don't know what to make of it. :-\

Many sources and esp.I-net ones often make mistakes. It's an obvious reality and sometimes it's just impossible to understand where on earth did they find some info.
In case with the family of Nicholas I I can say that all their life was under scrupulous attention. That was not the Middle Age when the infant children died like flies and we don't know now much on many of them. That was 19century and the family of one of the powerful Russian Tzars, and had he had a daughter who died at 3 years old we'd definitely know more on her - 3 years old is quite an age to remember a child and make notes of him/her, paint a sketch/portrait and so on.

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2009, 04:42:11 AM »
That's what I heard too, and the Elisasveta that I read about was born in 1826 and died in 1829.  But if Svetabel says this is incorrect, well, she's usually right, so I don't know what to make of it. :-\

Do you remember where have you read about that Grand Duchess Elizaveta?, I never read nothing about a fourth daughter...can you post a link or tell the title of the book?

Grand Duchess Alexandra Nikolaevna was born in 1825, and Grand Duke Konstantin Nikolaevich in 1827...so if that misterious Grand Duchess was born 1826, those would be three childbirth in 3 consecutive years...it seems improbable to me, sorry.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009, 05:01:38 AM by RomanovsFan4Ever »

Offline CountessKate

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2009, 09:13:28 AM »
Quote
Do you remember where have you read about that Grand Duchess Elizaveta?, I never read nothing about a fourth daughter...can you post a link or tell the title of the book?

Grand Duchess Alexandra Nikolaevna was born in 1825, and Grand Duke Konstantin Nikolaevich in 1827...so if that misterious Grand Duchess was born 1826, those would be three childbirth in 3 consecutive years...it seems improbable to me, sorry.

There was some discussion of Nicholas and Alexandra's children on the 'Nicholas I mistresses' thread (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=10922.0) although this was inconclusive with regard to Elizaveta.  However, there is clear evidence that Alexander was born in 1818, Maria in 1819 and a daughter was stillborn in 1820, so that is certainly 3 children in 3 years.  The stillborn daughter was recorded by Nicholas and his mother Maria Feodorovna in letters to Anna Pavlovna of the Netherlands.  So it's not improbable that a child may have been born in 1826 although what is surprising is the lack of a date of death - even if the child only lived a day, as Svetabel says, there would normally be some record of it.  Something which occurred to me was if the child had some birth defect, which might have lead to it being kept out of sight while it lived and might have accounted for an early death - but of course this is only speculation on my part.

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2009, 09:23:22 AM »
There was some discussion of Nicholas and Alexandra's children on the 'Nicholas I mistresses' thread (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=10922.0) although this was inconclusive with regard to Elizaveta.  However, there is clear evidence that Alexander was born in 1818, Maria in 1819 and a daughter was stillborn in 1820, so that is certainly 3 children in 3 years.  The stillborn daughter was recorded by Nicholas and his mother Maria Feodorovna in letters to Anna Pavlovna of the Netherlands. 

I didn't know about the stillborn of 1820, thank you for the clarification.

Offline violetta

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2009, 12:06:58 PM »
the stillborn daughter is also mentioned in a very famous and reliable book by nikolay shilder NIKOLAY I. i know that the stillborn daughter was born less than a year after the birth of maria.alexandra feodorovna was so devastated that her husband took her to berlin, to her parents to make her feel better.in fact, it was ab. 2,5 years and 3 children

RomanovsFan4Ever

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2009, 12:20:26 PM »
Oh I understand, thank you Violetta.
Unfortunately I haven't read Nikolay I by Nikolay Shilder...I read the biography of Tsar Nicholas I written by Henri Troyat, and I think that the stillborn wasn't mentioned in it (or maybe I don't remember it, I will take another look to the book).

Offline violetta

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2009, 05:03:32 PM »
Oh I understand, thank you Violetta.
Unfortunately I haven't read Nikolay I by Nikolay Shilder...I read the biography of Tsar Nicholas I written by Henri Troyat, and I think that the stillborn wasn't mentioned in it (or maybe I don't remember it, I will take another look to the book).


 Shilder was a russian -pre-revolutionary historian, he wrote books about alexander 1 and nikolay 1, in fact, he didn`t finish the latter book - he died. the books by shilder that i had access to were published at hte beginning of the 20th century.

Offline violetta

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Re: The three daughters of Tsar Nikolai I.
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2009, 05:47:51 PM »
a little bit off topic. there was another stillborn baby in 1823. a boy.the incident was described in olga of wuertemberg`s memories.

in 1823,olga`s mother, was pregnant. at that time elena pavlovna, the fiancee of GD mikhail pavlovich, was entering the st.petersburg society. alexandra feodorovna was really excited about this.she was 9 months pregnant and was so excited and worried about elena pavlovna that she began to cry nervously. she was wearing golden belt decorated with precious stones and they didn`t loosen her belt. the same night she gave birth to a stillborn boy.