Author Topic: Prince Friedrich Wilhelm (Frittie) and Princess Marie (May) of Hesse-Darmstadt  (Read 189996 times)

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Offline grandduchessella

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I would also try amazon.de or amazon.uk . It was never published here in the US so I ordered from Piccadilly Rare books along with 2 Robert Golden books on royalty (Relatively Royal and Golden Book of Royalty) Royalty in Photographs by ?? and 2 William Lead Malor books (Royalty Before and Royalty Between the Wars). With those 6 books it was a great day!! :D
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Offline Ilana

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Thanks, Sarai, have bookmarked.
So long and thanks for all the fish

Offline Joanna

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I saw in this month's Majesty magazine David William Cripps "Cabinett Portraits of the Victorian Era" and it cost to ship to Canada $114.00! Good Grief!!!!

There was another book advertized that I cannot remember now the name of the author or title but is similar to Cripps' book as it is pictorial and the cover has an amazing photograph of who I think is GD Ella young. I am curious of this book but to ship to Canada is very expensive :(

Joanna

Robert_Hall

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 For royalty books in Canada, try Gilbert's Royal Books, he is IN Canada, fair prices.

Offline grandduchessella

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I saw in this month's Majesty magazine David William Cripps "Cabinett Portraits of the Victorian Era" and it cost to ship to Canada $114.00! Good Grief!!!!

There was another book advertized that I cannot remember now the name of the author or title but is similar to Cripps' book as it is pictorial and the cover has an amazing photograph of who I think is GD Ella young. I am curious of this book but to ship to Canada is very expensive :(

Joanna


I ordered this book and it was just OK. There were some pictures I hadn't seen before but not as many as in some of the other discussed books. My biggest complaint was that most of the book there was one photo per page (and not necessarily a large one) and some writing. It wasted a LOT of space. Luckily I had ordered other books (it came from the UK to the US) so it was volume shipping--if I'd paid a lot of s/h in addition to the $40+ I probably would've returned it. Could've been SO much better.
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Offline grandduchessella

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I"m still looking though CZ's book, but she did say that Leopold was also given a pair of hand-coloured photographs of little Fritzie of Hesse in a double frame and he derived much pleasure from them. Also he was godfather to both Frittie and May?

p.71: They 'tried to draw Leopold closer to their family by inviting him to be godfather to their baby son, the child Alice was expecting...'
p.72: 'We have added dear Leopold's name to the others' Alice told the Queen when the baby was christened, 'as all his sad lfie, and the anxiety his health has so often caused us all, endear him particularly.' No novelist could have devised so sharp an irony as this, for unknown to them all, little Friedrich Wilhelm of Hesse would be the 2nd member of his family to have haemophilia....[Leopold would become] particularly attached to his little godson...and Leopold delighted in making a pet of him.
p.93 {news of F's hemophilia} Leo writes to Alice on 11 May 1873 (days before F's death) 'I hope my godson is keeping well, and not having any more bruises, and in every way unlike his Godfather, except in being very fond of you and Louis.'
p.93 [at F's death] 'How can I express my deep sorrow for you...he was always my especial pet and I was very fond of him, poor child.' Alice sent him a photograph of the dead child, surrounded with flowers, and a lock of fine, fair hair, a 'last souvenir of his precious godchild.' He kept them the rest of his life.
p.99: for Christmas 1873, Alice sent him a bust of little Fritzie, and his heart went out to her, 'you could not have given me anything which I should have liked better, or more prized & valued. It is such a dear, sweet & innocent little countenance, that I cannot help saying to myself that is perhaps as well that the dear child has been spared all the trials & possibly miseries of a life of ill health like mine...Oh dear Alice, I know too well what it is to suffer as he would have suffered & the great trial of not being able to enjoy life or to know what happiness is, like others.' His anger [at previous remarks of it being for the best for Frittie] had passed, leaving deep depression. [CZ doesn't note artist of bust]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by grandduchessella »
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I'm almost positive the photo on the right is of a young Alix. Every time I've seen this photo reproduced it identifies the child as Princess Alix of Hesse. I also think the little girl in the picture on the right looks a little older than four, the age May died at. The photo on the left of May must have been taken very close to her death, as she does look like a four-year-old. Poor little thing!

The two girls  do look fairly similar, but then sisters often do look alike as small children. In other photos I've seen of her, taken at different angles, May's bone structure looks strikingly like her older sister Irene's. I don't think she would have been quite as pretty as an adult as her sisters Ella and Alix were.

Bookworm857158367

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You know -- I still can't tell the difference between the two girls! May at 2 looked like her sister at a similar age and the girls also looked alike at 4. Who is the older girl in the above photo? Is that Ella or Irene?

Offline grandduchessella

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Oh, and the last one which was send is 100% Marie. Here we have a clear and good image and the eyes and the mouth can't be misidentified.


For comparison: Alix at the same age, 4


I never noticed since we usually talk about Marie's resemblance to Alix, but in the above picture she looks just like Irene at the same age! There's a photo of Victoria, Ella & Irene in Royal Cabinet cards and she's the spitting image!
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Offline grandduchessella

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Well, I don't know how many archives do possess a copy of the photo on the right.
The one from the book by Kurth at least is from Darmstadt.
During my practical course I saw loads of photographs and some are - if unintentional or not - wrong labelled!.

There were photos showing obviously Elisabeth Feodorowna and they had identified it Alexandra Feodorowna and vice versa. Photos taken in the early 1900s and later. This is only one example...

It took me a looooooong time to convince the director of the photocollection that they were 100% NOT the labelled persons.
What I wanted to say is: Even professionals make mistakes and especially photographs of children are sometimes extremely to identify.
Especially in the case of late photos of Princess Marie: She and Alix were indeed VERY alike and even dressed alike. If we now have no exact date of the photo and only a version in low qualitiy (as it is not very clear) one becomes confused.
If the photo on the right would date from 1876 we'd know: it can't be May as she was still a chubby toddler. But if it dates from 1878...good night...we don't know.

So if it is from Darmstadt it IS possible that every author publishes it as "Alix" - although it could be a mistake...

P.S. In the Royal portrait gallery they have a photo of princess Helena Victoria of Schleswig Holstein but they identified it as Victoria of Hesse...you find such examples everywhere.
You can never be sure. In my opinion at least  ;)


Oh, experts can be the worst to convince. I had to send 6 sets of photos of Leopold/Helen of Albany and Edward/Alexandra to show that a set of paintings up for sale at an auction house for thousands of dollars were NOT E&A. The person argued with me that the royal archivist at Windsor had labelled them, but he conceded after seeing the pictures I sent him. Wrong faces, wrong ages, wrong clothes, wrong everything. And Hulton Picture library gets them wrong all the time as does the National Picture Library in the UK as you pointed out. It is very tricky with children, not just for their looks, but also the multitude of Victorias, Maries, Elisabeths, etc... some of them within the same family and others called by different names (i.e. Princess Mary of Wales was Victoria Mary and identified at different points in her life as Pss Victoria and Princess Mary, same with the S-Holstein sisters) so someone not that familiar looking back over 100 years could easily be confused. One person had to change a listing on ebay because he'd identified Leopold of Albany (poor guy can't catch a break!) as Leopold I of Belgium.  I try and catch them on ebay when they're unidentified or mis-identified and people are usually grateful for the help as they admit they don't really know and inherited them and are selling them.  
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Offline Angie_H

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Alix, Ernst & May

Janet_W.

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That's an excellent question, Thomas, and I've also wondered why Alix and Ernie are so solemn but May is smiling.

Perhaps the two older children had been prompted to look serious, whereas little May just couldn't help herself.  Possibly the camera equipment amused her?!

At any rate, she certainly has a charming smile . . . it even looks like she's getting ready to giggle!

Offline grandduchessella

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I'm SO excited. As I mentioned, I am selling reprints on ebay of some of my collection. I posted one of Ernie and Charlotte Zeepvatt herself wrote me to say that it wasn't Ernie but FRITTIE!  :o First I was so excited to actually be in correspondence with whose become my favorite author now that Theo Aronson's died and Hannah Pakula retired. Then, I was excited that the photo which I LOVE was actually Frittie. I have a lot of Ernie (though not many as a child) but none of Frittie save group shots. So here it is:

She'll also have a book on governesses in the royal courts coming out and she loves Hesse & Romanovs (but who with discerning tastes, doesn't?  ;) )
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 07:05:59 AM by Svetabel »
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Oh yes--this is definately Frittie! Ernie's face was much rounder. I saw this on Ebay and knew it was Frittie right away! Images of him are so rare! Do you actually own the original cdv?

Offline grandduchessella

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Yes I do! I got in in Germany from a dealer who thought it was Ernie too. I never even bothered to check it.  :-[  Not very good for a history major. It's in a lockbox now with many of my really good images at my mother's. We're in hurricane territory and the military moves us (and loses stuff!) so I'm not taking any chances. I scanned in all my cards onto my computer (which is why it takes me so long to find some stuff) so I can just print them out from the direct scan. As I buy new ones, I do the same thing. I just got some more goodies! Hubby is once again, NOT happy but I tell him that I don't buy lots of new clothes, shoes, etc...so I think he still comes out ahead. I mean, I spent about $120 on a bunch of good stuff and that's only like 2 pairs of shoes, right? ;)
They also serve who only stand and wait--John Milton
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