Author Topic: Mis-labeled photograph?  (Read 26986 times)

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Offline Fredler01

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Mis-labeled photograph?
« on: October 25, 2009, 06:46:39 PM »
Hello all. This is my first post here, but that's beside the point of this topic. Recently I was looking through a book called: Royal Russia; The Private Albums of the Russian Imperial Family. Whilst looking through the photos I came across one that I am convinced is horribly mislabeled. The caption says that the Grand Duchess in the photo is Maria, however I am absolutely certain that it is Anastasia. I've included a scan of the page with my own editing (I circled the Grand Duchess's face; the name Maria and I enlarged a portion of the picture for a close up on her face). I would really appreciate it if this could be cleared up. I didn't expect reputable history books to contain such obvious mistakes.




Offline Douglas

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2009, 06:59:37 PM »
Are you kidding?  History books about the Imperial Family, etc. are loaded with mislabled photos.  You have to be an expert of each facet of the IF to be able to correctly name, the person, location and probable date of many photos.  Few people have that much knowledge stored in their head. It's rare that you can find a book on this topic that is totally error free.

I like to identify the Imperial yachts....but even I am on occasion at a loss.  Was that photo of a dining salon on the Standart or the Polar Star....hmmm...lol.

Welcome Fredler and we  like to play the game of "identify this photo" on this site.  You sound like you would enjoy it.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 07:05:47 PM by Douglas »

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 07:52:31 PM »
Douglas is right. Virtually every book on the Romanovs misidentifies at least one photo by person, place, or date.

Royal Russia does a mediocre job of identifying the grand duchesses, although some errors - such as the one you spotted! - are corrected in later editions. Victor Alexandrov's End of the Romanovs is even worse, particularly with dates.

Here's a list of the errors I've spotted in Royal Russia:

pg 44 - "Anastasia studying" is actually Maria
pg 46 - the "informal" photo of Grand Duchess Anastasia is a formal of Tatiana
pg 47 - Anastasia is not "pretending to smoke"; all the girls smoked
pg 48 - the man identified as Gilliard is in fact Pavel Voronov, an officer of the Standart
pg 62 - "The Grand Duchess Olga dressed more informally" is Olga
pg 71 - "Tsarevich Alexei on parade" was probably taken in the summer of 1912 for the centennial of Borodino
pg 80 - Maria was 15 years old in 1914
pg 83 - Olga (not Maria) and Tatiana
pg 87 - Maria on the terrace may have been at Peterhof, not Tsarskoe Selo
pg 103 - left to right, the grand duchesses are Anastasia (barely visible), Tatiana, Maria, and Olga
pg 115 - the caption is somewhat misleading; this is not the last photo taken of Olga or Tatiana, but it is likely the last photo of Alexandra

(Mine is a US edition printed by St Martin's Press in 1998 -- it's the one with the purple cover)

Offline Fredler01

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 08:14:32 PM »
Well thanks to both of you for your replies. Sarushka, the edition I have is a 1995 edition printed in Spain, with an orange-ish cover, the Imperial Eagle blue spine with printed tassels and golden title. It has pretty much all of the errors you mentioned.
And Douglas, is there any particular thread for that "identify this photo" game? I wouldn't mind having a look at all.

Offline nena

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2009, 09:12:56 PM »
I recommend you to visit the threads like 'Question about and/or Help with Picture(s)' are, they are available in almost each section on regarding the Royal Family members.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=1281.0 - in Alexei Nicholaievich thread. I am repeating, almost all subforums have its own same topic like this is, just take a look around. Good luck! 
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Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2009, 09:26:38 PM »
umm even thought that book is full of mistakes, that isn't. that girl is Anastasia.

Offline Fredler01

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2009, 09:32:30 PM »
Thanks Nena, I have come across that Alexei photo thread before, now that you mention it. I've been a 'lurker' for more than a year. I guess I should have known to look for threads like that, but it just didn't occur to me at the time of my first post; I did do a search for any posts about books containing errors however, though it didn't return much. Now that I think of it perhaps I should have set the search limit to a year instead of seven days or however much it is. But anyway, thanks for the help.

Mandie, I know it's Anastasia, lol. The mistake was that Anastasia was labeled as in the book as being Maria.

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 10:33:44 PM »
that's strange, in my copy of Royal Russia, it labeled as Anastasia. I have misunderstood before. sorry.

Offline Fredler01

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2009, 11:06:06 PM »
Not a problem Mandie, your copy is likely a newer edition (with mistakes fixed) than the one I have; as Sarushka explained to me.

Offline blessOTMA

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2009, 11:59:30 PM »
It's the rare book that doesn't  not mix up OTMA at some point. I mean you just have to  wait for the mix ups , because they will surely show up . In years past,  Nichols and Alexandra were the main focus , but as OTMA gains in popularity, perhaps the mistakes will lessen

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Offline Fredler01

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2009, 12:22:20 AM »
Perhaps you're right blessOTMA, but I would like to hope that they don't make too many mistakes. I understand that it's inevitable, but I'm a perfectionist like that. My original thoughts were that they can't have been very professional if they could mix up the Grand Duchesses, especially in practically face-on pictures. But I do understand that nobody is beyond error and that criticizing will not help to fix mistakes in the least. But as you said, as interest in OTMA spreads, better researched additions may emerge and hopefully there will be no mistakes.

Offline Douglas

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 01:50:46 AM »
Well thanks to both of you for your replies. Sarushka, the edition I have is a 1995 edition printed in Spain, with an orange-ish cover, the Imperial Eagle blue spine with printed tassels and golden title. It has pretty much all of the errors you mentioned.
And Douglas, is there any particular thread for that "identify this photo" game? I wouldn't mind having a look at all.

There is no particular thread per se that I know of.  It usually appears as a question under a thread topic.

Sarushka is good at identifying the GDs and others have their unique knowledge of certain areas. Even I can sometimes confuse the GDs but I am learning....
« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 01:57:14 AM by Douglas »

Offline Fredler01

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 02:39:57 AM »
Well to be honest I too have been unable to identify the GDs in the past. Mostly in childhood photos, and one photo of them in their older years.

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2009, 10:29:49 AM »
Odd with me, i can identify the Grand Duchesses from the beginning. Since I draw a lot of facial portraits. I never forget a face. lol

Princess Juliana

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Re: Mis-labeled photograph?
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2009, 12:13:18 PM »
I also have had trouble telling childhood photos of OTMA apart, but as they got older they all became very distinctive. I recognized that picture as Anastasia right away.