Nicholas II and Vladimir Lenin

[Cody]

Greetings, everyone!

This is my first post here, so we'll see if I make this an interesting topic or not.  I've been curious to know, for quite a while, if Lenin--after the Bolshevik take over in 1917--ever once had a desire to confront Tsar Nicholas face-to-face?  Or if Nicholas, after Lenin took over, ever had a desire to meet Lenin face-to-face?

+ Cody +

[TheAce1918]

Welcome aboard Cody!

I think that Lenin had origionally wanted Nicholas II on trial in Moscow once the revolution and civil war had ended, followed by some form of persecution sans the rest of the immediate family. 

There is a really good thread/section called "The Trial of Nicholas II", you might find it pretty interesting, though be aware, it can get pretty gritty at times. 

[RealAnastasia]

I think that the one who wanted a trial in Moscow was Trotzky. But I may be wrong.

RealAnastasia.

[Cody]

I think that the one who wanted a trial in Moscow was Trotzky. But I may be wrong.

RealAnastasia.

I know that the Bolsheviks wanted Nicholas to go to Moscow, and if I remember correctly Nicholas intended to go--and Alexandra decided to go with him.  But somehow, and I can't remember the details, the train never reached Moscow--and the Imperial Family was sent to Ipatiev House.

[dmitri]

No one really knows the answer to this one. Certainly Lenin had no great love of the Romanovs. Remember his brother was hanged at the order of Alexander III for his part in an assassination attempt on the same Tsar. Certainly knew that Nicholas II and his entire family were all murdered.

[Yelena Aleksandrovna]

No one really knows the answer to this one. Certainly Lenin had no great love of the Romanovs. Remember his brother was hanged at the order of Alexander III for his part in an assassination attempt on the same Tsar. Certainly knew that Nicholas II and his entire family were all murdered.

I agree completely with you, he disliked very much the tsarism, so I don't think that he would like to see
the tsar face to face

[Rodion_Felix]

Greetings, everyone!

This is my first post here, so we'll see if I make this an interesting topic or not.  I've been curious to know, for quite a while, if Lenin--after the Bolshevik take over in 1917--ever once had a desire to confront Tsar Nicholas face-to-face?  Or if Nicholas, after Lenin took over, ever had a desire to meet Lenin face-to-face?

+ Cody +

Lenin wanted the tsar and his family dead he had no plans on a triail All that was a lie he wanted them dead no matter what

[Naslednik]

This is a bit off subject, but I wonder if Lenin was glad that the anarchists finally achieved his brother's (Ulyanov) wish to kill Alexander II.  Frankly, I can't imagine that Lenin and Nicholas would have much to say to each other, being from such opposite mentalities.

[Alixz]

No one really knows the answer to this one. Certainly Lenin had no great love of the Romanovs. Remember his brother was hanged at the order of Alexander III for his part in an assassination attempt on the same Tsar. Certainly knew that Nicholas II and his entire family were all murdered.

I agree completely with you, he disliked very much the tsarism, so I don't think that he would like to see
the tsar face to face

Besides, if you have to meet face to face, then you have to "Humanize" your victim.  It is harder to kill someone you have to look at than someone that you can kill from afar.

It is hard to know if Lenin truly was behind the killings or if he just let time and others do what they wanted and so got what he wanted in the end.

As to the murder of Alexander II, I don't remember reading anywhere that Lenin ever commented on the eventual assassination.  The act of the assassination may have put closure to Alexander Ulyanov's death in Lenin's family, but only if like Lenin himself the family believed in their son's ideology and could see justice in the assassination.

[Geglov2-3]

Можно скачать камер-фурерский журнал прибывания Государя Императора 1917 февраль и март ... (оригинал архива)
You can download the camera-furersky Journal of stay of the Emperor in 1917 February and March ...

И понять, что  его кто-то подделал как в своё время дневники А.Вырубовой ...
I understand that someone has tampered with in their time diaries A. Vyrubova ...

если на этом писали историю ой-ой!!!

http://book-old.ru/BookLibrary/002010-ZHurnalyi-kamer-furerskie/ZHurnal-pribyivaniya-Gosudarya-Imperatora-v-deystvuyuschey-armii.-Fevral-Mart-1917.html

[Ausmanov]

I think Lenin was on a power trip, i think he did want him Moscow. I think he would have relished the opportunity to be around nicholas and to hold the fate of the former Tsar in his hands at thesame time, to have the shoe on the other foot so to speak.

[Belochka]

I think Lenin was on a power trip, i think he did want him Moscow. I think he would have relished the opportunity to be around nicholas and to hold the fate of the former Tsar in his hands at thesame time, to have the shoe on the other foot so to speak.

Somehow I doubt that Lenin relished the idea that the former Emperor was to return to Moscow in order to meet his fate. His presence in the capital might have been viewed as politically problematic because of the possibility that had the ordinary people been informed about the arrival, they might have raised enough public sympathy to cause major political instability against the newly emerging government.

It is worth considering one major point, recognizing that the Leninist government did not promote opposing political views, who in Bolshevik Russia would have been unintimidated enough to stand up and fairly defend the former Emperor and refute any perceived wrongs he might have committed in the mind of his political foe?

Margarita 

[Ausmanov]

You make a good point Margarita, i think it would have been a politically challenging event for lennin, he would not have been stupid enough to make that mistake but i still think he would have enjoyed it.

[Mexjames]

At the time, Lenin wasn't that strong in power so as to risk such a move.

Let's see:

1. Shipping the Tsar back to Moscow (a city that was carefully avoided on the IF's journey east) would have posed several problems for Lenin:
    a. He must have provided safety and security for the Tsar and his entourage.
    b. At least, there would have been a public demand to have the Emperor stand trial.
    c. At the most, there must have been Imperial sympathizers there who would demand, possibly even with the use of force, that the Emperor be put back on the throne.
   d. Most likely, there would have been pressure, both from within Russia and from abroad, to let the Tsar go into exile, unharmed.

2. Keeping the Tsar in Yekaterinburg meant:
   a. That the Tsar himself was out of the spotlight, his whereabouts unknown to must, so Lenin had complete control over the information pertaining the Emperor: where he was, with whom, etc. In other words, the Tsar and his family were hostages.
   b. Deniability. If things went wrong, Lenin could always deny having any knowledge of the Emperor's whereabouts, blaming the local soviet for any problem.
   c. Any rescue attempts would be difficult, given the low density of the population, access to weapons, and the sheer distance of Yekaterinburg to other cities where the Emperor could have had more of a following.