Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics

[Maria_Pavlovna]

Ilyinskys are not Orthodox?

[Laura Mabee]

Is it just me that finds it odd that pieces of her body are floating around in different churches?

[LisaDavidson]

Is it just me that finds it odd that pieces of her body are floating around in different churches?

No, you are not alone, Laura. But, I am not Orthodox, and I understand that having saints' relics is fairly usual business in that faith. If it were up to me, I would keep a departed person's remains together.

[LisaDavidson]

Lisa,

Interesting that you say the body might be moved with the approval of her "collateral descendants"

I wonder who they would be?   Dimitri Pavlovitch and Mariya Pavlovna were her official heirs, as they were adopted after GD Paul's mesalliance, and Clearly Dimitri inherited the Belosselsky Palace and Ilyinskoe.  I guess the Ilyinskys would be the direct heirs, and responsible for the permission, however, they are not Orthodox, so perhaps the Chuurch would avoid them?  If someone is cononised, moreover, are their remains still subject to regular law?  I guess they are, but what an unusual situation!

N

The Grand Duchess' sister, Victoria, arranged for her transfer from China to the Holy Land. I was thinking of her descendants - as Ernie, Alix and Ella had none. You are correct that in Russia, Dmitri and Marie were her heirs, but for whatever reasons, did not seem to be involved with Ella's burial.

[LisaDavidson]

Ilyinskys are not Orthodox?

As I have stated before, the Ilyinsky family is comprised of private citizens and I have no information as to the religiions of Prince Paul Ilyinsky's four children. Prince Paul had an Orthodox funeral, and it was my understanding that he was Orthodox.

[Georgiy]

I was at St Elizabeth's Martha and Mary Convent in Moscow a couple of years ago. it was still being restored and I couldn't go inside, but I was able to walk around the grounds. Verynice. There is a big statue of her there. Also, the relic of her arm (kept in New York) visited our parish in Auckland not so long ago, and we were able to venerate it. It was a wonderful blessing for us. It may seem strange for non-Orthodox and non-Catholic to have relics from one Saint in different Churches, but for us (at least as an Orthodox) it is a blessing - we are able to venerate them, and in a way, feel like are spending time with them and asking for their intercessions in a very real and physical as well as spiritual way. I guess, if the relics were only kept in Jerusalem, those of us who are unlikely to get to jerusalem, would not be able to have this ohysical as well as spiritual sontact with our Saints.

[Eric_Lowe]

I know biut it sounds strange too. If we all want to venerate her we should cut her threads and each keeping a bone...That was what they did with the earlier saints.

[Georgiy]

And that is why the Orthodox Church still does that - because that is what the Church has done from the start.

[Ena]

I visited the Martha & Mary Convent this past Sunday in Moscow.  I walked around the grounds and went inside where there was a service in progress.  I live in NYC and will have to visit the church that holds a relic of her.

[Eric_Lowe]

Lucky you...I plan to do that next year. Do you know the church in NYC that has her relic ?

[Nick_Nicholson]

It is the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Sign, on the corner of Park Avenue and 93rd  Street.

[holynewmartyr]

Previously, I had been curious of what happened to Father Mitrofan Srebrianski, Saint Elizabeth's spiritual father/director, after the Martha- Mary Convent was closed. Was he ever canonized as a saint?

It turns out that he was canonized by the Russian Orthodox Church in 2000.

He is known as Saint Sergius Srebrianski. His name was changed to Sergius when he was elevated to the rank of archimandrite.

Here is a link to an article about his life: http://www.roca.org/OA/146/146e.htm

His relics will be in San Francisco this Sunday only during the Divine Liturgy.




The Relics of the Holy Confessor Sergius, Last Spritual Father of the Martha and Mary Convent in Moscow, to Visit San Francisco

 [December 15, 2008] On Sunday, December 28 at 9:45 am the relics of the Holy Confessor Sergius (Srebriansky) will be brought to the Holy Virgin Cathedral Joy of All Who Sorrow in San Francisco from Tver, Russia to be venerated by the faithful of the Western American Diocese. St. Sergius was the last spiritual father of the Martha and Mary Convent in Moscow and of the Grand Duchess Elizabeth. After many arrests during the Soviet regime, exile and hard labor he settled in the Tver Region with his wife (both of them took monastic vows) and reposed in the Lord in 1948. St. Sergius' spiritual father recalls that: "Every time I spoke to him [St. Sergius], every time I heard his penetrating words, I saw before myself an image of an ascetic desert dweller... He was completely submerged in the Divine... One could feel this in everything he did, especially when he spoke. He spoke of prayer and spiritual sobriety – these were his favorite topics. When he spoke, he spoke simply, edifyingly and convincingly."

St. Sergius was canonized by the Church in Russia in 2000. His relics will be available for veneration throughout the Pontifical (late) Liturgy at Holy Virgin Cathedral.

http://www.wadiocese.com/wad.php


Западно-Американскую епархию посетит ковчег с частицей мощей св. преподобноисповедника Сергия (Сребрянского), последнего духовника Марфо-Мариинской обители

 [15 декабря 2008] В воскресенье 28 декабря в 9:45 утра в кафедральном соборе Пресвятой Богородицы Всех скорбящих Радости в Сан-Франциско состоится встреча прибывающих из Твери мощей преподобноисповедника Сергия (Сребрянского), последнего духовника московской Марфо-Мариинской обители и святой новопреподобномученицы Великой княгини Елизаветы Феодоровны. Ковчег с мощами будет находится в соборе в течение поздней архиерейской литургии.

Преподобноисповедник Сергий (в миру Митрофан Сребрянский) родился в 1870 г. В 1908 году Великая княгиня Елизавета трудилась над проектом по созданию Марфо-Мариинской обители. Подал свой проект об устроении обители и о. Митрофан; его проект настолько пришелся по душе Великой княгине, что именно его она положила в основу устроения обители и пригласила о. Митрофана на место духовника и настоятеля храма в обители.

Духовник вспоминал об отце Сергии: «Всякий раз, когда я беседовал с ним, слушал его проникновенное слово, передо мной из глубины веков вставал образ подвижника-пустынножителя... Он весь был объят божественным желанием... Это чувствовалось во всем, особенно — когда он говорил. Говорил он о молитве, о трезвении — излюбленные его темы. Говорил он просто, назидательно и убедительно». Скончался св. Сергий 23 марта 1948 г. в Тверской области. На Архи­ерей­ском Соборе 2000 г. он был причислен к лику святых.

http://www.wadiocese.com/index.php

[sebastien]

I’m unsure if this has already been posted, but there is an interesting article on the St. Mary Magdalene Convent on the BBC.  The interviewee is Mother Katherine, one of the nuns who staged the ‘sit in’, and she talks about her conversion to Orthodoxy and what led her to the convent i.e. Ella.

There is also a picture of Princess Andrew’s crypt, which appears to have been refurbished and looks quite different to the picture in Hugo Vickers’ book.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7783339.stm

[David_Newell]

I was at mass today and chatting to my Priest afterwards in the Kitchen. I was saying how if ever in Jerusalem I would visit St Elizabeth's grave. To which he replied well you know she visited Holy redeemer. Well I was shocked ....pleasantly and he told me the story. Elizabeth Feodorovna visited a community of nuns close to our church in Lloyd baker Square. She wanted to see the community and how it was run. This must be just after Grand Duke Segei was killed.

She went to see the convent and afterwards came to a service at Holy Redeemer. The church built along the lines of the of a Roman basilica. It is a very beautiful church and our services are in the Anglo Catholic tradition.

The surprises do not stop there. The special golden vestments of our priests are made from the court dress of a lady of the Imperial Family. They are made from tissue of gold and beautifully embroidered. I know that when EF took the veil, she sold most of her worldly possessions and gave away many things too. We know the robes are over 150 years old (approx) and my preist and I are wondering if the robes were made from one of EF's court dresses.

We have an icon of EF in one of our smaller chapels.

[David_Newell]

To the poster who was wondering about statues in Westminster Abbey, there are many tombs etc, but in the Chapel of Our Lady of Pew, there is a statue of the Virgin. You have to remember it was the Puritans who hated all such things and Cromwell and his mob that hated such things. There are tow traditions within the CofE High Church and Anglo Catholic and the Low Church. If you were to come to my Church Holy Redeemer in London you would think that you are in a Roman Catholic church, but it is in the Anglo Catholic tradition and our mother church is St. Paul's Cathedral, we even have an icon to St. Elizabeth in a side chapel (see other post re robes).