Author Topic: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics  (Read 184323 times)

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Robert_Hall

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #135 on: April 23, 2008, 09:22:52 AM »
I wonder who the GD Olga and her maid ended up to be?

Offline holynewmartyr

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2008, 09:15:13 PM »
Wow, I didn't know she left a last will. Do you know where I can read more about this, Hikaru? :D
I wonder if they'll transfer her body back to Moscow...any more news on this?

Yes, there is more news.

Click the following link to read comments from Russian Orthodox patriarch Alexei II on a proposal from the mayor of Moscow to have the relics of Saint Elizabeth moved from Jerusalem to the Martha-Mary Convent in Moscow.
http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2007/11/19/patriarch-aleksei-supports-a-proposal-to-transfer-the-relics-of-grand-princess-st-yelizaveta-the-new-martyr-to-moscow/

Holy New Martyr Elizabeth, pray for us!

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #137 on: September 17, 2008, 09:26:14 PM »
Quote
As far as I know Ella was burried in the russian chapel in Jerusalem in the early 1920's.

But recently I heard that her body was transferred to the Peter Paul-Fortress in St. Petersburg. Is that true?

Has anybody visited the Jerusalem chapel?


The relics of St. Elizabeth the Great Martyr are indeed in Jerusalem in a church under the jurisdiction of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad.

However, as a result of a recent agreement between the Patriarch of the Russian Church and the Metropolitan of the Russian Church Abroad, a new disposition will made of the relics of St. Ellizabeth:

1.  The major portion of the relics will remain in Jerusalem;
2.  A certain portion of the relics will be returned to Russia and will be placed in the Mary-and-Martha Convent, which is still undergoing extensive restoration;
3.  An additional portion of the relics will forwarded to the Cathedral of the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad in New York.



A bit of her relics  (like a dot) is at Camp Nazareth in Mercer, PA (during August, that was the new addition to the church there). I been to that camp a few times, summers of 2007, and this year. Her relics  along with new saint Barbara, Saint George, and other saints. I have kissed the box containing their remains (it smelt weird, but i had a powerful feeling of calmness). I have also been at the grave site of Mother Alexandra the Princess Ileana of Romania, also this summer.  :)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 09:27:56 PM by Mandie, the Gothic Empress »

Thomas_Hesse

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #138 on: September 18, 2008, 02:48:57 AM »

It seems so weird to me that they are actually removing parts of the bodies just to take them abroad and pray to them..... Why can't people just let remain those bodies at rest where and like they are? They have gone through so much torture when alive....... was it not enough?

I own a tiny piece of wood coming from the Grand Duchess's very first coffin. It was destroyed by acid and in the 90ies the nuns removed the bodies into the stone sarcophaguses they're still in. What was left in the old coffin they keep in a box...

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #139 on: September 18, 2008, 02:54:38 PM »
They are viewed as Holy Relics. There is always been a fasination about the powers they weild. People believe by touching it, they would be healed...

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #140 on: September 18, 2008, 06:54:17 PM »
True.  I personally don't really  believe in that (out of 100% more like 40%) and I'm Russian orthodox  :-X

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #141 on: September 19, 2008, 01:02:20 PM »
Indeed. Catholics and Orthodoxs both believe in it. Actually it is the power of believe rather than the object. As Jesus told the woman who believed that if she touched his cloak, she would be healed. I am Orthodox too.

Offline holynewmartyr

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #142 on: October 03, 2008, 07:00:42 PM »
Here is a site on the Russian Orthodox Church of Saint Magdalene in Jeruslem: http://eng.palomnic.org/heritages/gethemany/

Scroll down the page and you will see the sarcophagi of Saints Elizabeth and Barbara.

Holy New Martyr Elizabeth, pray for us!

Offline holynewmartyr

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #143 on: October 04, 2008, 01:39:06 PM »
With the Martha-Mary Convent in Moscow now fully restored and consecrated, the issue of returning the bodies of Saints Elizabeth and Barbara to Moscow for enshrinement at the convent will without a doubt be raised.

The mayor of Moscow has already raised it and the Patriarch of Moscow, Alexei II, has stated that such negotiations will have to be delicate.

The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (who is in possession of the Church of Saint Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem where the holy remains are kept) had stated that when restoration of the convent was completed, it would give as a gift to the convent the smaller of the two reliquaries that traveled throughout Russia in 2004. The larger reliquary containing the right arm of Saint Elizabeth is kept at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Sign in New York City.

The nuns at the Church of Saint Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem may have to end up keeping the smaller reliquary if the Martha-Mary convent is successful in obtaining the return of the holy remains. 

Although Saint Elizabeth expressed wanting to be buried at the Church of saint Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem, that was the before the events that would lead her to become a nun and found a convent.  Her will stated that she wanted to be buried at the Martha-Mary convent. 

I feel that the holy remains of Saints Elizabeth and Barabara should be returned to Moscow in accordance with Saint Elizabeth's will.

Your thoughts?

Holy New Martyr Elizabeth, pray for us!

Offline holynewmartyr

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #144 on: October 05, 2008, 10:10:38 PM »
I just found a website where you can take a virtual tour of Saint Mary Magdalene Russian Orthodox Church in Jerusalem , where the holy remains of Saints Elizabeth and Barbara are enshrined.

Exterior view of church: http://www.3disrael.com/jerusalem/church_magdalene_out.cfm

Interior view 1: http://www.3disrael.com/jerusalem/church_magdalene2.cfm 
This is a lovely church.  
You won't be able to see the sarcophigi but they are located on either side of the iconostasis under their respective icons (Saint Elizabeth on the left: Saint Barbara on the right).

Interior view 2: http://www.3disrael.com/jerusalem/church_magdalene.cfm

« Last Edit: October 05, 2008, 10:13:46 PM by holynewmartyr »
Holy New Martyr Elizabeth, pray for us!

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #145 on: October 06, 2008, 12:05:25 AM »
With the Martha-Mary Convent in Moscow now fully restored and consecrated, the issue of returning the bodies of Saints Elizabeth and Barbara to Moscow for enshrinement at the convent will without a doubt be raised.

The mayor of Moscow has already raised it and the Patriarch of Moscow, Alexei II, has stated that such negotiations will have to be delicate.

The Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (who is in possession of the Church of Saint Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem where the holy remains are kept) had stated that when restoration of the convent was completed, it would give as a gift to the convent the smaller of the two reliquaries that traveled throughout Russia in 2004. The larger reliquary containing the right arm of Saint Elizabeth is kept at the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Sign in New York City.

The nuns at the Church of Saint Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem may have to end up keeping the smaller reliquary if the Martha-Mary convent is successful in obtaining the return of the holy remains. 

Although Saint Elizabeth expressed wanting to be buried at the Church of saint Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem, that was the before the events that would lead her to become a nun and found a convent.  Her will stated that she wanted to be buried at the Martha-Mary convent. 

I feel that the holy remains of Saints Elizabeth and Barabara should be returned to Moscow in accordance with Saint Elizabeth's will.

Your thoughts?


If the Grand Duchess' will states that she wanted to be buried at her convent, and provided her collateral heirs have no objection, I can see no reason why her wishes would not be respected. The only legitimate reason why not I can imagine would be the expense. Since the Bolsheviks stole her money and since making restitution to these victims is not in the cards in today's Russia, then perhaps making this right for her is not possible.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #146 on: October 06, 2008, 11:03:39 AM »
Russia is now rich enough to pay for that and more. It would be another spectacle after Dagmar's return.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #147 on: October 06, 2008, 07:24:15 PM »
Russia is now rich enough to pay for that and more. It would be another spectacle after Dagmar's return.

Yes, but much of that wealth is at the expense of others. Ironically, before the Revolution, it was said that the Romanov's wealth was at the expense of peasants and workers. They had their revolution, the Romanov's personal wealth and belonging were filched by the the Bolsheviks - so why would today's government feel a responsibility to the grand duchess?

Whatever wealth that remained in Russia after 70+ years of mismanagement was quickly seized by Russia's new wealthy, who likely also have no reason to make things right for her. I'm not saying this is right, by the way, I think the theft of personal property is nearly always wrong, but who has the guts to make it right?

Robert_Hall

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #148 on: October 06, 2008, 08:52:01 PM »
The Russian State and benefactors have give more than enough compensation to the RO Church for them to pay for this themselves- if they care to. As was mentioned, it is a very delicate matter.  The 2 branches of the Church having different  views. Especially as to jurisdiction. It is a matter for them, not the Russian State.
 As for the nationalisation of "private" property, especially property   and wealth  provided by serfs and  monarchial monopolies, well, that is a very contentious issue and totally different from the religious  matters.

Eric_Lowe

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #149 on: October 07, 2008, 11:33:00 AM »
Indeed. It is a complicated matter for the Russian State and Russian Orthodox Church to consider...