Author Topic: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics  (Read 183284 times)

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helenazar

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #105 on: March 10, 2005, 10:28:29 AM »
This message and photos are from Penny Wilson, who asked me to post them...

Someone asked if there was a photo of Barbara Yakovleva's recovered body.  I have a full set of these photos, but the only ones that never seem to get "air time" anywhere are the ones of Barbara and Feodor Remez.  So here they are... even though they aren't of terribly good quality.  I think at least they complete the "set," and Barbara's DOES show in contrast to Ella's:


bluetoria

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #106 on: March 10, 2005, 10:35:32 AM »
Oh dear.  :(
Thank you for posting these Penny & Helen. They're very awful but, as you say, they do rather point to the 'miraculous' preservation of Ella's body.

helenazar

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #107 on: March 10, 2005, 02:45:51 PM »
I should probably add that the one on the left is Remez and the one on the right is Barbara Yakovleva (Sister Barbara). I can't really make out much at all in these photos, but the bodies seem to be in similar condition as the one identified as Ella.

Offline grandduchessella

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #108 on: March 10, 2005, 05:49:24 PM »
They are really horrid.  :(  I definitely think that the difference shows between these and Ella's. Maybe it's the angle or the quality of the print but it seems to me you couldn't even tell these were humans if you didn't know what you were looking at whereas Ella's was identifiable as such.
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helenazar

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #109 on: March 10, 2005, 06:29:50 PM »
Quote
...it seems to me you couldn't even tell these were humans if you didn't know what you were looking at whereas Ella's was identifiable as such.


I think it is just the very bad quality of these photos, whereas the one of Ella was of much better quality (and also don't forget at a much closer angle)... But I think you can definitely tell that these are human bodies here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by helenazar »

skipishere

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #110 on: April 17, 2005, 09:30:29 PM »
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Robert,

The Russian church in Gethsemane was the property of the Russian Orthodox Chuirch in Exile until last year, when the Israeli government acknowledged that all former Russian Church properties in Israel belonged to the Russian State.

The Convent and grounds are still the property of ROCA.

Nicholas Trahan

bluetoria

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #111 on: April 20, 2005, 03:59:58 PM »
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Robert,

The Russian church in Gethsemane was the property of the Russian Orthodox Chuirch in Exile until last year, when the Israeli government acknowledged that all former Russian Church properties in Israel belonged to the Russian State.

The Convent and grounds are still the property of ROCA.

Nicholas Trahan


What is the difference between ROCA and the Russian Orthodox Church in exile? And how did this decision affect that particular church? Please.

Offline TampaBay

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #112 on: April 20, 2005, 07:42:01 PM »
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What is the difference between ROCA and the Russian Orthodox Church in exile? And how did this decision affect that particular church? Please.



Blue,

There is a big fued, read very very big fued, between thr Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian orthodox Chruch Abroad (read in-exile).  GD Maria has not taken sides but has aligned herself with The Russian Orthodox Church and therefore The Patrirach of Moscow and The Patrirach of Constantinople.  

Read between the lines or contact me directly for info.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by TampaBay »
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lexi4

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #113 on: April 23, 2005, 11:37:21 PM »
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As far as I know Ella was burried in the russian chapel in Jerusalem in the early 1920's.

But recently I heard that her body was transferred to the Peter Paul-Fortress in St. Petersburg. Is that true?

Has anybody visited the Jerusalem chapel?

Yes I have visited and have photos of the chapel.

bluetoria

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2005, 05:25:45 AM »
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Yes I have visited and have photos of the chapel.


Did you see Ella's sarcophagus? Could you possibly describe the atmosphere etc. & maybe post some of your photos of that part of the chapel, please?  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Offline Ilana

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #115 on: April 24, 2005, 10:04:57 AM »
I have visited the Church of St. Mary Magdalen in Jerusalem.
So long and thanks for all the fish

bluetoria

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #116 on: April 24, 2005, 10:07:25 AM »
Can you describe it, please, Ilana (not just what it looks like but what isthe atmosphere like? etc..) ?

Offline Ilana

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #117 on: April 24, 2005, 10:22:20 AM »
The atmosphere is like many of the holy places in Old Jerusalem, eerie, and other-worldly like.  The chapel itself, is strangely not out of place with its onion domes on the place where the Russian Orthodox say the Garden of Gethsemene is....  It marches well with the mosques, the old churches, etc.  The inside of the chapel is not large with nowhere to sit.  When I was there they were repairing and doing over the roof and the inside walls, however that was 7 years ago.  It has a velvet rope where one of the nuns stands watch.  They are not interested in gawkers or souvenir hunters.  They only want people who are really interested in Ella or the religion to see the iconostasis.  Should you be allowed in, you walk forward to the altar and on either side are coffins.  On your right, facing the iconostasis is Ella's white marble coffin with a clear glass top so that you may see inside.  She lies there covered, of course, in a dress and gloves and booties.  Her face is covered by a matte lace hankerchief.  I was not prepared for the fact that I actually saw her body so it did creep me out!  On the other side is Sister Barbara, her coffin does not have a clear glass top.  

That is all I can think of at the moment (jet lag!).  Ask questions if you like!
So long and thanks for all the fish

bluetoria

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #118 on: April 24, 2005, 10:29:09 AM »
Thank you, Ilana!  :)  No further questions at the moment!  ;)

(I understand your feeling 'creeped out' - just about every other church in Rome has an uncovered body of some sort or other but the worst is that of St. Frances of Rome (I think that's who it was). They say, 'Come & revere the saint!' & when you get there it's a skeleton in a nun's habit!! Blurgh!
I don't think I'd think that about Ella though, especially with it being covered.)




« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

bluetoria

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Re: Ella's grave in Jerusalem & her relics
« Reply #119 on: May 05, 2005, 06:24:21 AM »
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But I think it was only her hand which has gone on a journey to Russia.  
 


Oh!! I think this is so sad & awful to start cutting parts off bodies.
If Ella wished to be buried in her convent why isn't the whole of her body taken there?
Otherwise, why not leave it as it is in Jerusalem?

(I'm not criticising Orthodoxy - the R.C. Church does the same & I understand the 'value' of relics...but really it seems so unnecessary & quite sacriligious to me.  :-/)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »