Other Balconies?

[Tasia]

That's cool (thanks), Joanna!!

[Joanna]

Regarding the roof over the balcony off of the Blue Drawing Room, if it was indeed built in 1846, is it possible that when Danini did Alexandra's balcony, he tried to match the roof over hers to what already existed on the other side of the AP?

The balcony off the Blue Drawing Room in 1846 was the stone steps with sunblind awning overhead as in the painting of 1858. The Faberge egg shows a similar style of roof to A's Maple Room balcony. Whether the Blue balcony was done prior to 1896 and Danini copied the style, we do not know as yet.

Joanna

[EmmyLee]

Oh, thank you for clearing that up. I guess I assumed that you had said that the 1846 balcony wasthe one seen in the blueprints and on the Faberge egg. Since it must have been built after 1858, I guess it could make sense that it was built at the same time as Alexandra's or still before. I wonder why it's so difficult to find information on it...

[EmmyLee]

As Joanna mentioned before, the History of Repairs to the Palace (on the AP site) lists "1846 Two iron balconies on Garden side designed by Brullov and Monginetti." I think that these really are the balconies that we've been wondering about. There is no mention of any other balconies, so they must be the ones in question.

Now to possibly answer why two of the balconies appear to have the same roof design. The list on the AP site states:

"1896 Foundation on Garden Terrace redone by Danini, slopes paved by slabs
Iron balcony outside Alexandra Feodorovna's rooms erected by Danini"

Danini redid a "foundation on [a] Garden Terrace" in 1896, the same year he added Alexandra's balcony. If the Garden Terrace is in fact the other roofed balcony off of the Blue Drawing Room, then I think it's entirely possible that while he was at it, he added the roof then to match what he was going to do with Alexandra's balcony. What does everyone think?

[PAVLOV]

It makes sense to me that these balconies were removed after WW11, when the Navy took over this part of the Palace. Probably for security reasons. The Soviets were paranoid about spying.
All the balconies must have been removed after the war. Prior to 1917 this part of the Palace was still inhabited and used so they would not have removed them at that time.

I hope they put them back when they complete the renovations.

[EmmyLee]

Pavlov, that does make sense. If they were so paranoid about spies, I suppose a balcony would make it easier to listen in at a door or perhaps enter.

[Joanna]

This photo from Tatiana Z's amazing scans shows Olga on a balcony that may be the one off the Blue Drawing Room. It is circular with a double vase post at the left corner. It does not conform to A's balcony at the corner of Reception Room.

http://radikal.ru/F/i036.radikal.ru/0909/5c/af1fac021af3.jpg.html

If it is the Blue Drawing Room balcony then it matches the railing with A's.

Joanna

[Tasia]

I agree with you, EmmyLee and Joanna!!

Joanna, the girl in the picture is Tatiana! hehe

[PAVLOV]

I dont think this is the balcony we are looking for. I have just whipped out all my reference books, and the pattern of the railing is exactly the same as Alexandra's balcony.
Also if you look at the 3D drawing of Alexandra's balcony, you will see that it also has a rounded bit, where it goes around the building to the front.

If any of you have Marvin Lyons book " Nicholas ll The last Tsar" there are wonderful photoghraphs of Alexandra's balcony on pages 180 and 181.
The finials also look the same.

Could the two balconies have been build at the same time using the same materials ?

[EmmyLee]

It could be possible, Pavlov, but if that's the case, why is there so much more information on Alexandra's balcony? Perhaps because it was her balcony? But if the History of Repairs to the Palace list is correct, then I think that the "two iron balconies on Garden side designed by Brullov and Monginetti" [emphasis added by me] are the ones we're discussing. So unless the one off of the Blue Drawing Room was ripped out and reconstructed at the same time as Danini built Alexandra's, I don't really think that they were built at the same time. But then, wouldn't there be some mention of the balcony being taken out or redone? Hmm...

[PAVLOV]

Hi Emmylee
I really dont know. I see your point. Danini ( Or Monigetti) seemed to have been very busy with all these balconies.  I think he had a balcony factory somewhere in Russia. The same pattern was used at the Winter Palace, and also removed by our dear friends, the Soviets. ( Thankfully)  He seemed to have one standard pattern. When anyone asked for a balcony, he trotted out the same thing. And they were awful.

Where I live, we had an Ostrich feather boom in the late 19th century, and many beautiful Victorian mansions were built with the huge resultant fortunes , and exactly the same sort of balconies. No difference at all. Breathtakingly beautiful on an old Victorian mansion,with all the elaborate wrought iron lace work. The same type of architecture exists in Australia.
Many people thought they were very unattractive, especially the garden railings at the Winter Palace. ( Also Danini / Monighetti), and the same pattern)  They were too Victorian to be tacked onto a Neo Classic building, or a Rastrelli Palace. Personally I think the balconies were hideous. They could have done something more tasteful. ( But then Hmmmmmmmm Alexandra's taste ! )
My personal opinion.... I think both balconies were erected at the same time, and removed at the same time.
We dont have any photographs of the other one, because the Imperial Family never really used that part of the Palace. Guests stayed there from time to time. The family had their own balcony, so why schlepp all the way to the other side, where there probably was'nt a kitchen to make a cup of tea anyway ? The Soviets just took them all away, and we are left with the mystery of it all, to drive us crazy trying to work it all out !!! I am sure they have someone at the Museum who knows all the anwsers to our questions.

I am just constantly plagued by the small details of all these buildings. Now I am being driven crazy about this balcony built more than 100 years ago!! I am having the same problem with railings and balconies at Gatchina !
I frequently remember seeing photos of places and buildings, and I am pulling books off shelves and driving myself insane comparing the modern photos to the old ones.
But its wonderful, is'nt it ?
 
 
 

[EmmyLee]

It is wonderful, however confusing it might be.

I see your point too. I hadn't known that Danini used that pattern so often; that seems rather cheap, especially for an imperial palace. I agree that I don't find the balconies particularly attractive either, and yet I'm still so interested in these other two ones that we know so little about. Your point about the family not using that wing very often makes a lot of sense as to why we don't have many pictures of the wing; I hadn't thought about that. Thank you for your thoughts, Pavlov, it's a pleasure discussing this with you!

[Joanna]

The balcony off the Marble/Billiard Hall did not have an overhang. There is a photo where you can just discern the railing. The door was the middle window of the Crimson Room #25 but it is difficult to know if it remained when the room was reconstructed into a chapel. The Marble hall had a window also that could have lead off onto the balcony but it is difficult to tell with the watercolor or G. Lukomskii's photo c1918 as the curtain is closed.

A photo c1930s that shows a little piece of the balcony railing off the Billiard Hall:
http://geglov2.narod.ru/jpg/Aleks_Dvor/Istor/001/P1000530.jpg

Joanna

[EmmyLee]

Oh, thank you Joanna! It's too bad that the photo isn't clearer or closer to the balcony, but it's the best we've got on that balcony.

[Joanna]

Now to possibly answer why two of the balconies appear to have the same roof design. The list on the AP site states:
"1896 Foundation on Garden Terrace redone by Danini, slopes paved by slabs
Iron balcony outside Alexandra Feodorovna's rooms erected by Danini"
Danini redid a "foundation on [a] Garden Terrace" in 1896, the same year he added Alexandra's balcony. If the Garden Terrace is in fact the other roofed balcony off of the Blue Drawing Room, then I think it's entirely possible that while he was at it, he added the roof then to match what he was going to do with Alexandra's balcony. What does everyone think?

Further information on on the semi-circular terrace:
At the same time in 1896 as Danini added a balcony to the outer wall of the first floor alone the concert hall (reconstructed later as maple room) and corner drawing room with an iron roof, columns and curtains, he arranged a removable canopy on an iron stand over the semi-circular terrace. Previously there was a non-removable canopy which had been dismantled. The floor of the terrace was paved with white and gray marble.

Joanna