new member not sure he wants to be here.

[Greg_King]

Jack kept all of her things until his death in 1990. After that, Jack's second wife Althea kept some things, threw some out, and sold others, so that everything collected was dispersed.

[JonC]

I STILL stand by my original offer that anyone who can produce a paper from a peer review journal, written by a scientist trained in the field of forensic dna analysis which shows why the original testing by Gill, Melton, et al, is no longer reliable, I will publish said paper myself here in the Alexander Palace Time Machine  website and will modify my position on the subject.

Dear FA.

I'm not questioning the validity of any test you mention here. I'm not interested in AA or her history. I would like for you to clarify for me exactly who Gill and Melton tested here in the point you are making. Was it AA or the Imperial Family? I take it to be the Family. If so, I wasn't aware that Dr.Terry Melton was one of the original scientists invited to do the testing on the first bone examinations of the IF. In fact, I don't remember her ever mentioning, in my conversations with her, that she had ever said that she had actually worked on the samples. I am not, by this questioning of your statement, trying to prove you wrong or right about your statement, I simply want to know for myself if in fact she actually did work on the original samples with Gill, the DOD, and Maples, etc. Thanks, JonC.

[Forum Admin]

I STILL stand by my original offer that anyone who can produce a paper from a peer review journal, written by a scientist trained in the field of forensic dna analysis which shows why the original testing by Gill, Melton, et al, is no longer reliable, I will publish said paper myself here in the Alexander Palace Time Machine  website and will modify my position on the subject.

Dear FA.

I'm not questioning the validity of any test you mention here. I'm not interested in AA or her history. I would like for you to clarify for me exactly who Gill and Melton tested here in the point you are making. Was it AA or the Imperial Family? I take it to be the Family. If so, I wasn't aware that Dr.Terry Melton was one of the original scientists invited to do the testing on the first bone examinations of the IF. In fact, I don't remember her ever mentioning, in my conversations with her, that she had ever said that she had actually worked on the samples. I am not, by this questioning of your statement, trying to prove you wrong or right about your statement, I simply want to know for myself if in fact she actually did work on the original samples with Gill, the DOD, and Maples, etc. Thanks, JonC.

Dr. Melton tested the same samples that Dr Glll tested, the DOD (Air Force Forensic Lab) and Maples, as far I understand.  I do know for certain that her work was indeed on the original samples along with Dr. Gill back in 1994.

[JonC]

Thanks FA, for your reply.

When she did the samples for us she promised impartiality - now I realize she should not have undertaken her analysis of our samples because of her obvious conflict of interest. Thanks, JonC.

[Forum Admin]

That is a ludicrous and frankly defamatory about Dr. Melton.  Scientific results are not based on the perceived bias of the person doing the tests.  The results are what they are. Most particularly with DNA. Either the sample matches or it doesn't. There is nothing Dr. Melton could have done to influence the results one way or the other PRIOR to seeing the results. If you don't understand this point, you clearly don't understand the basic science of DNA.  The only thing your statement could imply is that Dr. Melton deliberately faked test results, which is a serious claim and one which can easily result in a Libel/Slander lawsuit against you.  Should Dr. Melton pursue this action, understand clearly that I will provide her freely with all information about your post and your membership here.

I strongly urge you to withdraw that comment.

[Greg_King]

I don't know what the point is here regarding the DNA tests (I can guess), but to clarify: Melton and Stoneking tested ONLY the AA hair samples. They did not test any of the Koptyaki remains as far as I am aware from researching this and speaking to Dr. Melton.

[JonC]

Obviously, FA, I'm sorry, but you have completely over reacted to my comment. I guess its because it wasn't complete - my fault. My reaction had nothing to do with the validity of the results. Her results on my samples were perfect. I have always maintained that the results released by the Gill team were correct for the samples they were given. My comment concerned an agreement she and I had which has nothing to do with you or anyone else on this site. I was referring to that agreement in my comment of which of course you had no idea of - my fault for my poorly worded comment.

In any event I would not have made that comment as per Greg King's info that Dr. Melton analyzed only the AA samples and NOT those of the Koptyaki forest as you stated. Thanks Mr. King for answering my initial question. JonC..   

[JonC]

Incidently, FA, your unnecessary elevated level of perverted hysteria shouldn't surprise anyone who has tried to participate an innocent comment on this website. I couldn't care less what you do with my so-called ' membership ' if an innocent comment can incur such a hysterical tirade. JonC.

[susana]

Dear Forum Administrator,
I'm wracking my brain to remember where I read the 30% inaccurate rate. I swear I think I read it on here--but it was a lengthy report on DNA testing and I'll try to rediscover it--I know it was online. I recall the bias as improvements and advances in the last few years have created some former tests as outdated now.

One thing I have noticed on this and other forums is that new members often come on strong and offend older members, perhaps without meaning to, but in an effort to 'belong' and be accepted. I felt badly for the 'new member'--maybe he only wanted to be heard and have his contribution recognized--we could certainly do that. I found it a little offensive that you felt the need to 'insist' that I provide sources. 'Would you mind providing sources' would have been more inviting and considerate. It would be nice if there were a reminder for all of us to be gentle--after all we're all fascinated by the same topics.

Sincerely,
Susana

[susana]

Forum Administrator and all,
Finally I located the source of my assertion that 30% of the older DNA tests from the '90's are already outdated; its on Peter Kurth's website and I actually got it backwards. A reported 60%+ - of the older tests have been outdated by new more miniscule measures and tests. Science continues to march forward. 
Sincerely,
Susana

[susana]

One more post: remarks about the flat earth society, being crazy etc are really not to my mind appropriate to this forum. I'm one of the many members who believe/hope/see substantial physical indicators that similarities between AA and AN are great. For Prince Andrei who was on the first Russian trip with me I would like to remind him and many of you that if you have no belief in the survival of Anastasia then you have no concern that the IF family is leaving a member behind. As far as I recall only one aunt expressed angst over the matter after her own denial--who else anguished?

For those of us who nurture the thought that she is who others said she was I paraphrase imperfectly:
                                     'There are stranger things in heaven and earth than can be seen or known by humans.'

Again thanks for your time and if bonedaddy shows up again I'd love to hear everything he knows about the Manahans--its interesting to me that some see AA's as a perpetrator and others as a victim--definitely a survivor. Food for thought.

[Olga Bernice]

I'll make one thing clear right now - I know nothing about DNA or any of the science. I still have much research to do on that particular topic, but I'm getting there. If I say anything condradictory to what really happened, don't hesitate to correct me - I'm still learning.

I do not think that Anna Anderson was Anastasia. This is my humble belief. Of course, they were nice people, I'm sure, but I do not believe that she had anything to do with the Romanov family. But may I ask a question - has it ever been found out just how she knew all the languages she did, and all the facts she did? (According to bonedaddy, at least.) And even if her knowledge wasn't that shocking, certainly she would have had something that made some of the IF believe her? Or is it just one of those speculated-but-never-proven things? (Again, please don't hesitate to correct me.)

Again, I'm sure the real Manahans were nice people - as Holly said, it wasn't nice to masquerade as a seventeen-year-old girl, but everybody has flaws (if, of course that can be considered a "flaw" . . . well, everybody lies, too). Anybody who knew the Manahans in person - it would be very interesting to hear from you and please don't hesitate to respond. As long as, as the FA said, you don't try to question the DNA evidence without concrete proof, it would be extremely wonderful for you to get involved with this dicussion!

[Forum Admin]

If one reads Greg King and Penny Wilson's recent book "Resurrection of the Romanovs" the answers to all your questions are to be found.  For example, Russian language tutors were hired to help her "recover" her "lost" language skills, many questions were of the "remember when we were at x and did y" variety, where the answer was already in the question, as well as the books and magazines to which FS had access...Much hype was made of what she allegedly "knew" but, the truth is that she absorbed all the information over time. The authors have been able to research and document it all. She was an intelligent fraud.

[Kitt]

No matter what one's beliefs are about AA and the dna evidence, I think that the real story at this point in history is the one Greg King and Penny Wilson wrote.  In a way, AA was truly an amazing woman.  When you think of the amount of time, spanning a world war and after, and all the people involved, her actions amounted to an extraordinary feat.  It did snow ball on her.until there was no way out of the deception.  By the end I wonder if AA didn't just really believe in it all herself.  I also, would like to hear anecdotes about the Manahans from other local folks who were aquainted with the couple.
All the best, Kitt


"If one reads Greg King and Penny Wilson's recent book "Resurrection of the Romanovs" the answers to all your questions are to be found.  For example, Russian language tutors were hired to help her "recover" her "lost" language skills, many questions were of the "remember when we were at x and did y" variety, where the answer was already in the question, as well as the books and magazines to which FS had access...Much hype was made of what she allegedly "knew" but, the truth is that she absorbed all the information over time. The authors have been able to research and document it all. She was an intelligent fraud."

[Olga Bernice]

Thank you very much for your replies, Fa and Kitt. I will definitely be looking at Resurrection of the Romanovs. Thanks again!

Olga Bernice