Author Topic: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures  (Read 285194 times)

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Offline Gabriella

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #345 on: December 31, 2012, 08:24:10 PM »
the first portrait shows in fact Maria A's grandmother Luise of Hesse Darmstadt (1761-1829)

I do remember the picture of Grandduchess Louise of Hesse, I think I have seen it somewhere. Is it part of the collection of the Schlossmuseum in Darmstadt?
Or was it published in a book?

Joseph_Kaiser

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #346 on: January 01, 2013, 12:16:38 PM »
That's interesting that the first portrait is really Empress Maria's grandmother, when I looked up her mother on wikipedia that is the portait that they say is her. 

Joseph_Kaiser

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #347 on: January 01, 2013, 12:19:45 PM »
I think that Empress Maria was very pretty when she was young, it def seemed that she and Alexander II were very much in love. 

Offline Dru

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #348 on: January 01, 2013, 02:24:17 PM »
That's interesting that the first portrait is really Empress Maria's grandmother, when I looked up her mother on wikipedia that is the portait that they say is her. 

They are correct, though--just look at the clothing style.  I must have mislabeled them in my collection  :-[

Joseph_Kaiser

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #349 on: January 01, 2013, 03:07:19 PM »
Louise, Grand Duchess of Hesse was a very striking looking woman and was part of the party traveling with Marie Antoinette heading to France in 1770.  Her mother's Baden family is pretty famous, one of her mother's sisters was a Queen of Bavaria, another was Empress Elizabeth Alexeyevna of Russia (Luise of Baden) and another one was a Queen of Sweden.  Talk about connections. 

Joseph_Kaiser

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #350 on: January 01, 2013, 03:13:28 PM »
you can def picture what Empress Maria's mother looked like when she was young by looking at her mother's sisters

Joseph_Kaiser

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #351 on: January 01, 2013, 08:23:02 PM »
I just read in a book that Empress Maria took more of an interest in her children then in her imperial role and that because of that her children were very protective of that, I definitely like that  :)

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #352 on: January 01, 2013, 09:01:55 PM »
Sadly a reason why her husband cheated on her, he wanted besides a mother to his children - a lover playmate and a regal Empress, which to him his favorite long time mistress and later morganatic wife Ekaterina Mikhailovna had.

Maria Alexandrovna had poor health all her life which worsen with age and to the Russian Court, they saw her much how the they would see her great-niece Alexandra Fydorovna in the 20th century - a German, from a poor court  (same court Darmstadt), weak & mental heath, bad taste in fashion, way to shy, heartless saying she didn't care for Russia and it people etc...(however AF would have a happy marriage with a faithful husband).

As being  protective of her children, she was especially protective of her eldest son and heir Tsarevich Nikolai Alexandrovich and after his  death and the memory of losing her eldest daughter and child Alexandra many years before- haunted her for the rest of her life and she cling to her three youngest children (Maria, Sergey and Paul) and spend long periods away from Russia in her birth county Hesse with those children.

Offline Sara Araújo

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #353 on: January 02, 2013, 08:19:24 AM »
Two more portraits of Maria Alexandrovna's mother, Wilhelmine:




Natalie Paley website:

http://nataliepaley.webs.com/

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #354 on: January 02, 2013, 09:33:11 AM »
Quote
Sadly a reason why her husband cheated on her, he wanted besides a mother to his children - a lover playmate and a regal Empress, which to him his favorite long time mistress and later morganatic wife Ekaterina Mikhailovna had.

Given that Alexander II was in an adulterous relationship with Ekaterina Dolgorukova for most of their relationship, and their marriage was deemed morganatic, it is difficult to accept that he realistically was looking for a 'regal Empress' given that she had no public position as his mistress and not a very clear public position as his wife (and as the latter was deeply resented by the Tsarevna Maria Feodorovna). 

Joseph_Kaiser

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #355 on: January 02, 2013, 11:46:04 AM »
It is interesting to look at Empress Maria's predecessor, the Empress Alexandra, Nicholas I's wife.  She was also German, born Charlotte of Prussia but inherited her famous mother's grace and charm (Queen Louise of Prussia), ease in social situations and it looks like she was able to adapt well to her new country overtime and her husband adored her and I heard that Nicholas didn't have his infidelities until after Alexandra got ill. 
It is very sad about the situation that Empress Maria was in sometimes, I've read some place that Alexander II moved his mistress and his children by her to the third floor of the Winter Palace, right above the Empress's rooms??

Great pictures Sara Araujo!

Offline Dru

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #356 on: January 02, 2013, 01:38:57 PM »
According to Alexander II: The Last Great Tsar, Ekaterina Dolgorukaya and her children were moved to the third floor of the Winter Palace for safety purposes (there was concern about assassination attempts).  However, their rooms were not directly above those of Maria Alexandrovna--that was just a rumor spread by courtiers who disapproved of the tsar's infidelities. 

Maria_Pavlovna

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #357 on: January 02, 2013, 02:17:01 PM »
Quote
Sadly a reason why her husband cheated on her, he wanted besides a mother to his children - a lover playmate and a regal Empress, which to him his favorite long time mistress and later morganatic wife Ekaterina Mikhailovna had.

Given that Alexander II was in an adulterous relationship with Ekaterina Dolgorukova for most of their relationship, and their marriage was deemed morganatic, it is difficult to accept that he realistically was looking for a 'regal Empress' given that she had no public position as his mistress and not a very clear public position as his wife (and as the latter was deeply resented by the Tsarevna Maria Feodorovna). 

i guess I didn't explain well, lol that's why I'm not a professional writer *wink*. well anyways, what I mean by "Regal Empress" is that what was expected of Maria Alexandrovna - in looks, fashion, leading the highest and best of the Russian Society and perfection in doing her imperial duty. "regal" i suppose isn't the right word for it.

I bid it did bother Alexander II when his wife couldnt do her duties and was ill all the time. poor thing (Maria Alexandrovna), really not her fault.

As for Ekaterina Dolgorukova, if Alexander II lived for a few more years it would have been possible that Ekaterina would have become "Empress" and whould have imperial duties, by being still young and healthy would have performed her duties well.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 02:20:09 PM by Mandie, the Gothic Empress »

Offline amelia

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #358 on: January 02, 2013, 06:37:10 PM »
There is a book in French LE DEMON BLUE DU TSAR, by Laurence Catinot-Crost, with the letters that Katia exchanged with the Emperor. She is always nagging or demanding something, and one can see how much power she had on him. Some of the letters are very intimate. This book was published in 2003 and I believe it is authentic. I can not remember where I bought this book, but it is very interesting.

Amelia

Offline CountessKate

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Re: Empress Maria Alexandrovna,wife of Alexander II - discussion and pictures
« Reply #359 on: January 03, 2013, 03:10:38 AM »
Quote
i guess I didn't explain well, lol that's why I'm not a professional writer *wink*. well anyways, what I mean by "Regal Empress" is that what was expected of Maria Alexandrovna - in looks, fashion, leading the highest and best of the Russian Society and perfection in doing her imperial duty. "regal" i suppose isn't the right word for it.

I bid it did bother Alexander II when his wife couldnt do her duties and was ill all the time. poor thing (Maria Alexandrovna), really not her fault.

As for Ekaterina Dolgorukova, if Alexander II lived for a few more years it would have been possible that Ekaterina would have become "Empress" and whould have imperial duties, by being still young and healthy would have performed her duties well.

I don't have a problem understanding what you meant, I am just not sure on what evidence you postulate that Maria Alexandrovna wasn't "doing her imperial duty", or that Alexander II expected his wife and empress to be a beauty and fashion leader.  It was not his expectation when he married her and I am not aware of any evidence that their early married life was in any way impaired by a disappointment on his part that she was not such a person.  Nor am I aware of any reproaches he expressed to her that she "couldn't do her duties and was ill all the time" which in any case there seems little evidence of until her terminal illness of later years (and her predecessor, Alexandra Feodorovna, had ill-health issues which did not affect her basic imperial role).  While it is understandable that Alexander II should look outside his marriage particularly for sex when his wife's health made this difficult if not impossible for her [leaving all questions of morality aside], I am not convinced that there is any evidence that Maria Alexandrovna was such a poor empress in her imperial role that Alexander wished to replace her on that basis.  Of course he did want to replace her, but that was on the basis, frankly, of falling in love with a much younger woman to whom he was in sexual thrall.  With regard to any future imperial role for Ekaterina Dolgorukova, she had major handicaps foremost of which was the resentment of her husband's family.  As for the social duties, the morality of the times was that marriage did not remove the taint of former adultery and it was frankly shocking to the general public for the emperor to flaunt the relationship or for Ekaterina to take a high-profile role.  Whether she was young and healthy and performed the duties well was not, in itself, the major point.