Ural Regional Soviet/Central Executive Committee

[Sarushka]

I've noticed I have only a hazy understanding of the difference between the Ural Regional Soviet and the Central Executive Committee. Can someone please help me differentiate between the two?

Things I need clarified:
the jurisdiction/role of each body
how they relate to each other
which is higher ranked
how each was involved with the imprisonment of the IF
etc.

Thanks

[Nicola De Valeron]

 Sarushka, this is very easy and at the same time difficult question. If will start to discuss about it, we will never finish it. All that period of Russian/Soviet History was full of troubles, and even now still it's not clear to understand the separation of the powers between All-Russian Central Executive Committee and Council of the People's Commissars of the RSFSR for example. First (headed by Sverdlov, then by Kalinin) was mainly legislative, while second (headed by Lenin until his death) was playing the role of a government of the RSFSR and was mainly executive.
 All-Russian Central Executive Committee was the highest legislative (mainly), managing and at the same time control (State court) organ in the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (1917-1922) and later in the USSR.
 By the way, the head of this Committee from November, 1917 till March, 1919 (until his death) was Sverdlov, also a very big Party player and organiser of Romanov's trip to Moscow, closer friend to our Commissar Yakovlev. That's why, by the way, Yakovlev, as an Executive Commissar from All-Russian Central Executive Committee, while was carrying Romanovs, had enormous power and all must be comply with all his orders, including Ural Regional Soviet.
 Now we are going to Regional Councils. This is more difficult to understand in a first time. Ural Regional Council was the highest exclusively executive department in the area, without any judicial functions. That's why, for example Ural Regional Council hadn't any legitimate rights to destroy the Romanovs. All the execution was strongly agreed with All-Russia Executive Committee (Sverdlov) and Council of the People's Commissars of the RSFSR (Lenin).
 So, finally, answers to your questions:
- All-Russian Central Executive Committee was highest and mainly legislative and judicial department throughout Russia, while Ural Council was regional executive department.
- They can't be ranked, because they had played rather different functions. But of course Ural Regional Council must strongly execute all orders from All-Russian Central Executive Committee.
- The Romanov's trip from Tobolsk to Yekaterinburg was organised by Sverdlov (All-Russian Central Executive Committee), but their execution was organised by Golovochekin (Ural Regional Council) and agreed with Moscow (Lenin and Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR) and Sverdlov (All-Russian Central Executive Committee)

[wox24]

I red interesting thing. According consul in Moscow Bartells (I do not know right because t is in azbuka), Lenin did not want to kill Tsar family. And not only Lenin but the most bolsheviks comissars too. But it very wanted Sverdlov and his allies. All quote (interview with Sokolov):

«Он, Бартельс, со времени возникновения большевистской власти в России находился сначала в Петрограде, а потом в Москве в качестве германского консула. Ему положительно известно, что за несколько времени до убийства Мирбаха между королем Испании и императором Вильгельмом происходили через специальных курьеров совершенно секретные переговоры, имевшие в виду спасение русского Царя и Его Семьи. В результате этих переговоров через графа Мирбаха последовало требование к Ленину об освобождении Государя Императора и Его Семьи. Ему, Бартельсу, положительно известно, что Лениным было собрано специальное заседание "комиссаров", в котором большинство комиссаров примкнуло к точке зрения Ленина о возможности освобождения Государя Императора и Его Семьи. Такому решению большинства воспротивилась другая партия во главе со Свердловым, причем Бартельс, называя ее, употребил выражение: "еврейская" партия. Г. Бартельсу известно, что после того, как состоялось решение комиссаров, враждебная этому решению партия тайно отправила своих людей в Екатеринбург, и там произошло убийство Царя и Его Семьи»

Россiискiй Архивъ. С. 306.

By the way Lenin was leader for public, but in reality, the most important person was Jankel Sverdlov. I red many materials about it, I am afraid only in Russian and I do not want to translate it because it would not be correct.

[Belochka]

I red interesting thing. According consul in Moscow Bartells (I do not know right because t is in azbuka), Lenin did not want to kill Tsar family. And not only Lenin but the most bolsheviks comissars too. But it very wanted Sverdlov and his allies. All quote (interview with Sokolov):

«Он, Бартельс, со времени возникновения большевистской власти в России находился сначала в Петрограде, а потом в Москве в качестве германского консула. Ему положительно известно, что за несколько времени до убийства Мирбаха между королем Испании и императором Вильгельмом происходили через специальных курьеров совершенно секретные переговоры, имевшие в виду спасение русского Царя и Его Семьи. В результате этих переговоров через графа Мирбаха последовало требование к Ленину об освобождении Государя Императора и Его Семьи. Ему, Бартельсу, положительно известно, что Лениным было  собрано специальное заседание "комиссаров", в котором большинство комиссаров примкнуло к точке зрения Ленина о возможности освобождения Государя Императора и Его Семьи. Такому решению большинства воспротивилась другая партия во главе со Свердловым, причем Бартельс, называя ее, употребил выражение: "еврейская" партия. Г. Бартельсу известно, что после того, как состоялось решение комиссаров, враждебная этому решению партия тайно отправила своих людей в Екатеринбург, и там произошло убийство Царя и Его Семьи»

Россiискiй Архивъ. С. 306.

By the way Lenin was leader for public, but in reality, the most important person was Jankel Sverdlov. I red many materials about it, I am afraid only in Russian and I do not want to translate it because it would not be correct.

I disagree with your interpretation of the extract you have posted allegedly sourced from the Russian Archives.

Lenin was the most important person in the entire scheme. The matter as to what was to have been done with the Imperial Family, had indeed crossed the table during 'discusions' by Lenin's select gathering.

Using my emphasis and translation: "Lenin gathered a special meeting of "commisars", at which most commissars sided with Lenin's point of view regarding the possible liberation of the Sovereign Emperor and His Family"

... it is very clear that nothing would have been decided or achieved without Lenin's sanctioning it. He was the leader - the final arbiter. The majority of commissars, like puppets, fell in line with Lenin's point of view, while the remainder, it appears, did not offer a 'point of view' that was recorded.

Had Comrade Sverdlov acted independently (in defiance of that authority), Lenin's subordinate would have without doubt, incurred his leader's wrath and found himself facing the same fate met by Graf von Mirbach, whose misfortune (in this case) was to transmit the undesirable diplomatic communiqué. That communiqué suggested the Bolshevik government entertain the foreign proposal about undertaking negotiations in order to save the former Emperor and his family.

The Commissar's 'collective decision' was simply a visible means to administer Lenin's will - in their name and thus accordingly, as provided in the last sentence (my translation): "the party secretly sent their people to Ekaterinburg, and it was there where the assassination of the Tsar and His Family occurred."

The outcome was that no negotiations with foreign powers would ensue and Lenin promptly resolved this sticky problem, Bolshevik style.

Margarita Nelipa

[Belochka]

Россiискiй Архивъ. С. 306.

Could you please provide the full Fond citation and identify the document from which you provided your excerpt and not simply write a random page number.

Thank you.

[wox24]

Mistake. Not Lenin but Sverdlov. Sverdlov had really power. It is fact what is concealed.

By the way I very good  know an  official system of power in Russia etc. what you sent.

[wox24]

Россiискiй Архивъ. С. 306.

Could you please provide the full Fond citation and identify the document from which you provided your excerpt and not simply write a random page number.

Thank you.

I cannot because I found only it. I will try to make all for get it in Russia but I do not know whether it come.

EDIT: I am afraid I have tentative comp because my own comp has assaiedl  with virus I cannot open him. And so my connects are often bad, even infeasible.