Author Topic: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV  (Read 336174 times)

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Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #300 on: November 19, 2010, 08:17:00 AM »
Thanks so much, Elske!. That makes even more clear that it was Elisabeth, not Gisela.

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #301 on: November 19, 2010, 12:06:08 PM »
Well it could be (the image is still burry) but the person beside her does not look like Franz Josef. It is still a problematic photo to me. This is my opinion only...  :-\

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #302 on: November 19, 2010, 12:52:43 PM »
....I think it's Gisela, firstly because I've never seen Elisabeth wear a hat like that, and secondly, the features just look too much like Gisela. While she did bear some resemblance to her mother, I've always observed that Gisela had a bit more of a chubby face, with dimples, whereas Sissi had a less plump countenance. We all know how much she strived for a thin figure!  ::) Soo..I think it's Gisela. Just the whole countenace of the lady seems to exclaim Gisela to me, I dunno why.  ???
I don't think she's Gisela, the lady photographed is quite slim and her face isn't chubby (it's more noticeable in the close up that Elske made (thank you very much for it)), the man is definitively Franz Joseph although his face isn't easy to see.
A agree totally with Katenka, the lady portrayed is really Empress Sissi.

Offline heavensent

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #303 on: November 21, 2010, 07:45:55 PM »
Eliz was obviously a great  horsewoman with a love for horses..
I was wondering though... did she ride sidesaddle..... or  astride ?

Offline aor

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #304 on: November 22, 2010, 07:30:17 AM »
Eliz was obviously a great  horsewoman with a love for horses..
I was wondering though... did she ride sidesaddle..... or  astride ?

she rode aside like all proper Victorian women.......but, as the horsewoman she was, I'm pretty sure she preferred astride.......

Offline heavensent

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #305 on: November 22, 2010, 09:43:36 AM »
I think it was thought not quite right  and improper,  for a  lady of  quality to ride
astride a horse.
 Even Catherine the  great    of  Russia had this problem.....        Elizabeth Empress of  Russia insisted that  Catherine    rode  side saddle ....  Catherine had a special saddle  made and  rode side saddle but as soon as she was out of sight of  Empress Elizabeth she  rode her horse astride.
     Eliz....  (the  Habsburg one....) was nicknamed ...  Queen of the Hunt....  somehow I  cant see  her  riding to the  chase  side saddle....  am I  wrong  ?

  Interestingly  Empress Eugenie was an exellent horsewoman  and it was seeing her leading the hunt in  the  Bois de Boulogne... that  inflamed the passion of  Louis Napoleon  and  eventually led
to their marriage.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 09:45:37 AM by heavensent »

Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #306 on: November 22, 2010, 10:41:41 AM »
Here's another of her poems, referring to herself as "Titania"
Titania shall not go where people walk
this world where no one understands her
Where hundred thousand gaze at her,
Whispering and prying,
“look, the fool, look there!”
Where jealousy and envy seek her out
To distort her every action.
She returns homebound,
To those regions where allied kinder souls abide.
When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything You gave me". --Erma Bombeck

Offline heavensent

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #307 on: November 22, 2010, 11:02:28 AM »
Eliz....  definitely side saddle  here


looks like shes  riding to  the hunt  too !

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #308 on: November 22, 2010, 11:22:48 AM »
Was this the one in Althorp ?

Offline heavensent

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #309 on: November 22, 2010, 11:41:43 AM »
could be ?  I think she went hunting near there quite a lot.

There must have been some romantic involvement with Bay Middleton...
...  officially she had no sexual liasons... but I dont believe that for one minute.
Franz had his mistresses........... Eliz must have had her beaus..
who knows what went on  during these long rides in the countryside.....!

I think I  read that when  Bay Middleton  finally got married,  Eliz stopped
coming to England to hunt.....

Its a bit like Princess Alexandra and her beau...  who was devoted to her
but their relationship was supposedly platonic....  a likely story !

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #310 on: November 23, 2010, 01:21:02 PM »
The austrian imperial family after Rudolph's death

Offline Yelena Aleksandrovna

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #311 on: November 23, 2010, 01:27:48 PM »
Well, Empress Sissi had several platonic loves (only that, not a real affair) through her life like Bay Middleton or even her friend Gyula Andrassy, nothing sexual was related to it, at difference of Franz Joseph who had several mistresses. It's true that immediately that Sissi knew that her beloved teacher was going to marry she decided to change the sport she practiced (ridding and going hunting to England).

Offline heavensent

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #312 on: November 23, 2010, 01:45:57 PM »
I dont  know how you can say with such certainty  that she never had any affairs or physical relationships...
 Think of all those hunts.... which are really big social events...
think of all the times she was surrounded by handsome young men ( and middle aged men )
She must have attended countless soirees... dances... balls
in all those years.....  had invitations to dinner  at  great houses.....  who knows what really happened ?

She knew that the boring Franz was back in Austria with his mistress....
why should nt Elizabeth have the odd fling ?  and back then, without the intrusive press
it would be a lot easier to keep private.
...... seems an aweful long time to be celebate.....

Getting back to the sidesaddle issue.... its   possible that artists depicted her riding sidesaddle
out of  propriety..... but could she really go hunting that way ?   jumping fences... ditches ... keeping up with the hunt !

It might not have been lady like but surely she rode astride when out hunting .... am I wrong ?



.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 01:51:07 PM by heavensent »

Offline MademoiselleAndrea

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #313 on: November 23, 2010, 02:09:36 PM »
Nice! Who's who? Other than Sissi, Franz, little Elisabeth, and perhaps Stephanie, I can't make out the rest! As for the painting on the wall, it must be Rudolf.
When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything You gave me". --Erma Bombeck

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Empress Elisabeth, Part IV
« Reply #314 on: November 23, 2010, 04:56:20 PM »
From left to right : FRanz Ferdinand, Marie Valerie, Franz Salvator, Leopold, Gisela

Sitting: Franz Josef, Elisabeth, stephanie and the little girl Erzsi.

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"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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