Private rooms of the Winter Palace

[brnbg aka: liljones1968]

I have seen this particular room identified before as "the study room" in the third reserve apartment. Of course, it could have also been a dining room during another period of history.

--Gavin.

at one point was the a sort-of family dining room for Aleksandr II & his family.  

Angela Hawkins refers to bombing in her abstract
"Populism in Russia"
(http://www.iusb.edu/~journal/1999/Paper6.html):

Three (...) attempts on the life of the Czar have become famous. One was the attempt to blow up the Imperial train near Moscow on 19 November 1879. They succeeded in blowing up a train but not the train that the Czar was riding on. Another attempt was made on 5 February 1880, a bombing at the Winter Palace. Alexander escaped unharmed because he hadn’t yet reached the dining room when the bomb went off. This explosion killed eleven people and injured over fifty, mostly soldiers. The sixteen people, men and women, considered responsible for these two attempts, along with other ‘‘high crimes and offenses,’’ were court-martialed in St. Petersburg on 6 November 1880. Two of the 16 were purportedly hanged in the fortress of Saints Peter and Paul.

i believe it was after the repairs that the room took-on the look it has today.

btw, it may, very well, have been known as the Yellow Dining Room, but, honestly, i had never heard that before.

[Gavin.O]

This link includes several photos from inside the Winter Palace, apparently from a recent visit. If you scroll down a little, one photo is listed as a sitting room in the apartment of Nicholas II ... but with the two columns, I wonder if this could be the bedroom?


http://stacy.theatre-musical.com/russia/album1.html

--Gavin.

[pers]

Yes, that is the bedroom.  It is the only room in that part of the palace with two white pillars.

[BobG]

Regarding the "Yellow Dining Room": in The Winter Palace (the book of watercolors under the direction of Emmanuel Ducamp) this room is described as:

"The fourth room of the Third Reserve Apartment, formerly the Ship Hall, subsequently became a sort of antechamber.
Of considerable size, it was lit by three windows and furnished with pieces made in 1839, probably in the workshop of Andrei Tour."

There is also a watercolor by Eduard Petrovich Hau in 1872.

It is not identified as a dining room or having been furnished as one.  It may be that the room would be set up as a dining room periodically in the way that it was done at the Alexander Palace.  This room was directly opposite Alexander II's Antechamber (Reception Room).
BobG

[mclisa]

On the plan of the private rooms, what is that in the unidentified room between I (Nicholas II's bathroom) and J (the dining room)?  It doesn't look like a staircase but I can't figure out what it is.  Am I right in assuming the room is some sort of service area?

Speaking of Nicholas's bathroom, did he have a dressing room or did he simply dress in the bedroom or bathroom?

What are those dots in the interior courtyard in the middle of the apartments? I"m guessing columns or a trellis.

Is there a plan of the top floor anywhere? I haven't been able to find one except the diagram on the Hermitage ste, which isn't particulary useful if you're interested in the palace before the revolution.  



Thanks!

[Gavin.O]

On the plan of the private rooms, what is that in the unidentified room between I (Nicholas II's bathroom) and J (the dining room)?  It doesn't look like a staircase but I can't figure out what it is.  Am I right in assuming the room is some sort of service area?

Speaking of Nicholas's bathroom, did he have a dressing room or did he simply dress in the bedroom or bathroom?

What are those dots in the interior courtyard in the middle of the apartments? I"m guessing columns or a trellis.

Is there a plan of the top floor anywhere? I haven't been able to find one except the diagram on the Hermitage ste, which isn't particulary useful if you're interested in the palace before the revolution.  

These are excellent questions, and I've wondered about them myself.

Does anyone know which room is in this photgraph?

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/12/2005/hm12_1_20_1_2_5.html

--Gavin.

[pers]

That is a "passing" room.  Basically it is the room which precedes Nicholas' study in the Winter Palace, after you have passed through the library.  I think it is the room with 2 windows just outside the study.  I think in Russian it is referred to as a "prikhodnaya".

[mclisa]

Thank you, Pers, but we aren't talking about the same room.  The one that opens off Nicholas's study is H on the plans on this forum. The room I asked about is between I, Nicholas's bathroom, and J, the white dining room. It is directly behind B, the Empire drawing room.

It may also be a passing room, but the plan shows something in the middle of the room. It doesn't look like a staircase.  I think it may be some sort of built-in furniture  

[Gavin.O]

Thank you, Pers, but we aren't talking about the same room.  The one that opens off Nicholas's study is H on the plans on this forum. The room I asked about is between I, Nicholas's bathroom, and J, the white dining room. It is directly behind B, the Empire drawing room.

It may also be a passing room, but the plan shows something in the middle of the room. It doesn't look like a staircase.  I think it may be some sort of built-in furniture  

I think Pers was answering my question, which I appreciate. I think, also, that the room marked "H" is the study itself, and Pers is refering to the room between "H" and the library, marked "L."

As for the "object" you are wondering about, I'm not sure what it is either. I have thought that it might be a narrow serivce staircase. Assuming that the room itself is some sort of pantry for the adjacent dining room, it would makes sense to have a stairway that could perhaps lead down to a larger kitchen. If you look closely, the "object" is not much narrower than the passageway just next to it, so it would seem wide enough to accomadate some narrow stairs.

Perhaps somebody who really knows will post

--Gavin.

[brnbg aka: liljones1968]

I think Pers was answering my question, which I appreciate. I think, also, that the room marked "H" is the study itself, and Pers is refering to the room between "H" and the library, marked "L."

As for the "object" you are wondering about, I'm not sure what it is either. I have thought that it might be a narrow serivce staircase. Assuming that the room itself is some sort of pantry for the adjacent dining room, it would makes sense to have a stairway that could perhaps lead down to a larger kitchen. If you look closely, the "object" is not much narrower than the passageway just next to it, so it would seem wide enough to accomadate some narrow stairs.

Perhaps somebody who really knows will post

--Gavin.

you're correct.....it's a staircase.   and i believe the little room behind it may be a sort of buffet or even a pantry/butler's pantry (used for serving the White Dining Room).     the staircase may have been used as a service-stair, or it may even have been a private stair for N II.

[Gavin.O]

you're correct.....it's a staircase.   and i believe the little room behind it may be a sort of buffet or even a pantry/butler's pantry (used for serving the White Dining Room).     the staircase may have been used as a service-stair, or it may even have been a private stair for N II.

Question No. 1: Is this cross-section really of that staircase in the Winter Palace? And if so, do you have other cross-sections of the Winter Palace that you might share?

Question No. 2: Am I correct that this corner of the palace (what were the private rooms of Nicholas II) included THREE staircases? In addition to the staircase that we've been discussing in the buffet/pantry, there appears to be a staircase directly behind the bedroom and another, small staircase just below it, between the larger staircase and the bathroom. Am I right? I would assume that the larger staircase was for the imperial family to use, while the smaller staircase was for the servants.

Question No. 3: I have read some descriptions of the private rooms that mention a lift/elevator and yet I cannot see any indication of one in the floor plans. Was there one?  

I have many more questions about the Winter Palace, but I won't bombard you with them all at once

--Gavin.

[pers]

Gavin, this plan is not exactly correct according to the alterations made by Nicholas and Alexandra.  You'll see it shows two exits from the bedroom towards the back.  I can only see one on the photos of the room during that time.  Further there is an exit from the Silver Drawing room (C) into the passage, which does not appear on the plan.  Maybe someone out there has the plan as the rooms were altered for the usage by Nicholas and Alexandra.  It will be very interesting to see!

[Remio]

hello!!
Concerning the winter palace under the reign of Nicholas I, I would like to have more informations about the nursery of Nicholas I's daughters, and in particular of the doll's house. And where did this room was located?

(the picture is on the Hermitage website). Thank you!!

[BobG]

Since their daughters rooms were right below theirs in the Winter Palace, it makes a lot of sense that N&A would have a stairway for their use (and the elevator, also).  I think it is very difficult to get floorplans for an exact period in time, so we're never sure when changes took place and how they are reflected on plans.
BobG

[pers]

The Hermitage has a book with the original drawings for the decoration of the rooms, with comments written in the side by Grand Duchess Elizabeth, when the suite was prepared for Nicholas and Alexandra, so the plans most probably exist as well!