Author Topic: Private rooms of the Winter Palace  (Read 693633 times)

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PAVLOV

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #345 on: October 27, 2009, 09:40:34 AM »
May I ask a question please ? I am sure someone will know for sure.

I am interested to find out if there were doors at the ground floor level leading to the garden, behind the railing which has now, together with the garden, been removed ? If so, what rooms gave acess to the garden ?

Many visitors, including Edward VII, thought the palace very strange because it had hardly any garden, and opened directly onto the street.
I cannot spot anything on the floorplans.

Thanks 
 

Robert_Hall

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #346 on: October 27, 2009, 09:56:40 AM »
Well, Pavlosk, as it was a "Winter Palace" there was not much need of a garden, was there?  Plus, they had the great country palaces in which  to explore and entertain themselves. The was also the Winter Garden inside the palace, but I am not sure when that was dismantled.
 However, your question is interesting. Although that garden, such as it was, seemed rather out-of-place facing the vast square, they must have had some sort of access to it.

Offline rgt9w

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #347 on: October 27, 2009, 11:09:51 AM »
Here is a picture of the bomb damage to the winter palace after the assassination attempt on Alexander II.

http://rusarchives.ru/evants/exhibitions/mf_exp/49.shtml

PAVLOV

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #348 on: October 28, 2009, 07:11:21 AM »
Yes, is this  the  "yellow dining room" ?  I wonder where this room was ?  It looks as if it had windows facing a small courtyard. Could anyone point out the room number perhaps on the floorplans ? It was obviously on the 1st floor ( second floor in America), premier etage ? The bomb was placed in the room beneath this one, so the blast came from below, but it must have been a very strong as the rest of the room is badly damaged. I dont think anyone would have survived.

PAVLOV

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #349 on: October 28, 2009, 07:21:42 AM »
Well, yes I suppose so. But they must have popped out for some fresh air occasionally. I think the rooms were probably very hot and stuffy in
Winter.
I read somewhere that Nicholas was fond of walking "in the garden" before dinner, when staying in the Palace.. There is an entry in his diary to this effect. Also remember that although this was a  "Winter" Palace, they spent time there when they had to attend ceremonies in St Petersburg, and many of these took place at other times of the year.
 

PAVLOV

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #350 on: October 28, 2009, 07:30:30 AM »
PS. Robert, I am almost 100% sure that I read somewhere that the winter garden was dismantled during the renovations made by N & A. I cannot imagine why they removed it. All that was left was the hanging garden between the Palace and the Hermitage of Catherines time. Still there, as you know. 

Robert_Hall

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #351 on: October 28, 2009, 09:10:14 AM »
I think you are correct, Pavlosk.  A pity that it was removed at all, but it may have fallen into disuse and needed repair and renovation.  As for the outside garden, it was rather small, as imperial gardens go,  and I imagine it was mainly intended for the children.  Do you, or anyone know when it was installed in the first place? Security must have been a nightmare to look after it.
 The WP itself was a security challenge, especially after the bombing and the assassination of AII.  Alexandra in particular hated the place and it was like pulling teeth to get her to attend anything at all in StP let alone the WP. Even though they had beautiful apartrments there, they were rrely used after  the AP was ready for them.

xirbis

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #352 on: October 28, 2009, 10:16:05 AM »
Dear PAVLOV, there were actually three winter gardens in the WP. Yes , you are correct, one of them (the smallest one) was done away with during the end of XIX century reconstruction (N&A remodeling, if not earlier). There were other two: one overlooking the main courtyard, entrance from the long (Pompeian) Gallery, running along the Neva Enfilade, the other was actually in the building next door, not the WP proper but in the Small Hermitage: the entrance was from the Pavilion Hall, and that winter garden overlooked the Hanging Garden of the Small Hermitage. However, taking into account that SH was actually incorporated into one of the Reserve Apartments WP annexes, we may say that the SH winter garden was the largest of these three.

xirbis

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #353 on: October 28, 2009, 10:20:08 AM »
I think you are correct, Pavlosk.  A pity that it was removed at all, but it may have fallen into disuse and needed repair and renovation.  As for the outside garden, it was rather small, as imperial gardens go,  and I imagine it was mainly intended for the children.  Do you, or anyone know when it was installed in the first place? Security must have been a nightmare to look after it.
 The WP itself was a security challenge, especially after the bombing and the assassination of AII.  Alexandra in particular hated the place and it was like pulling teeth to get her to attend anything at all in StP let alone the WP. Even though they had beautiful apartrments there, they were rrely used after  the AP was ready for them.


I believe it was installed late XIX c., as a part of N&A reconstruction. The wall surrounding the Garden was erected, thus partially dealing with security issues.

xirbis

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #354 on: October 28, 2009, 10:24:15 AM »
May I ask a question please ? I am sure someone will know for sure.

I am interested to find out if there were doors at the ground floor level leading to the garden, behind the railing which has now, together with the garden, been removed ? If so, what rooms gave acess to the garden ?

Many visitors, including Edward VII, thought the palace very strange because it had hardly any garden, and opened directly onto the street.
I cannot spot anything on the floorplans.

Thanks 
 

Well, the Hofburg compound in  Vienna and the Royal Palace in Berlin could not boast about their private gardens either.

xirbis

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #355 on: October 28, 2009, 10:31:38 AM »
well, this "Yellow Dining Room after bombing" does not make any sense to me. It virtually does not fit  ANYWHERE!  Some help, anybody?

Offline Douglas

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #356 on: October 28, 2009, 12:13:08 PM »
well, this "Yellow Dining Room after bombing" does not make any sense to me. It virtually does not fit  ANYWHERE!  Some help, anybody?

On the evening of 5 February 1880 Stephan Khalturin, also from Narodnaya Volya, set off a charge under the dining room of the Winter Palace, right in the resting room of the guards a story below. Being late for dinner, the tsar was unharmed; although 11 other people were killed and 30 wounded. The dining room floor was also heavily damaged.

I believe the photo in question is mislabled.  The damage seen in the photo appears to be WW 2 damage of some palace room and not the result of  the bomb damage on a lower floor of the WP in 1880.  Plus the quality of the photo also suggests it is not a photo from the 1880s.

Whoever labled the photo uses the year 1879, calling it the year of the assassination, which is incorrect.  Multiple errors with this photo.

« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 12:22:07 PM by Douglas »

Offline G.Michael

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #357 on: October 28, 2009, 11:54:36 PM »
I believe the photo in question is mislabled.  The damage seen in the photo appears to be WW 2 damage . . . the quality of the photo also suggests it is not a photo from the 1880s.


I have to agree with this assessment.

As for the location of Alexander II's dining room, I believe it faced a small internal courtyard near the October Staircase and was adjacent to the White Hall and the Golden Drawing Room. On this link, it is -- if I'm not mistaken -- between rooms No. 52 (the White Hall) and 54 (Red Boudoir), and just to the left of room 53 (Golden Drawing Room.)

http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/html_En/08/hm89_0_1.html
 

Offline rgt9w

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #358 on: October 29, 2009, 07:15:17 AM »
I apologize if I posted a link that is not accurate. I thought (wrongly it seems) that the listing was correct since it was credited as coming from GARF at the bottom of the page.

Offline BobG

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Re: Private rooms of the Winter Palace
« Reply #359 on: October 29, 2009, 08:08:57 AM »
May I ask a question please ? I am sure someone will know for sure.

I am interested to find out if there were doors at the ground floor level leading to the garden, behind the railing which has now, together with the garden, been removed ? If so, what rooms gave acess to the garden ?

Many visitors, including Edward VII, thought the palace very strange because it had hardly any garden, and opened directly onto the street.
I cannot spot anything on the floorplans.

Thanks 
 

Pavlov,

Here is a picture from the Russian Photo Archives showing the door from the children's wing on the ground floor (circled in red).  They list the date as 1900.  I'm not sure when the garden fence was constructed, but my guess is it was around the time of the 1905 revolution when N & A were very concerned for safety.  The door leads from a corridor as best I can detect from old plans of the area.  I've never seen plans of exactly what the children's floor looked like in  N & A's time.
BobG