Author Topic: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined  (Read 39895 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 10:11:15 PM »
The reason for Grand Duke George's "timing" is that he was recently in Russia, where he met with the Patriarch among others, and while in Moscow His Imperial Highness was interviewed by several news organizations that posed the question to him.

He did not initiate the discussion.

On what grounds did George state the following:

1. "... that the Commission was staging a political show...  AND .... rather than working to establish the truth ...

2. "The Commission did not care. There was a farce ..."

Margarita
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 10:14:26 PM by Belochka »


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Offline Seth Leonard

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 10:25:28 PM »
On what grounds did George state the following

Maybe you should ask the Grand Duke? I am not his official spokesman. ;-)

Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2010, 02:01:31 AM »
On what grounds did George state the following:

1. "... that the Commission was staging a political show...  AND .... rather than working to establish the truth ...

2. "The Commission did not care. There was a farce ..."

Margarita

One might also note that Georgy was only 16 years old at the time when the Commission had decided in late January of 1998 to proceed with the funeral in July of that same year...

So are these his own words and representative of his own opinion...  or is it a position that he has been coached to take by others?

Offline Belochka

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2010, 05:27:59 AM »
On what grounds did George state the following:

1. "... that the Commission was staging a political show...  AND .... rather than working to establish the truth ...

2. "The Commission did not care. There was a farce ..."

Margarita

One might also note that Georgy was only 16 years old at the time when the Commission had decided in late January of 1998 to proceed with the funeral in July of that same year...

So are these his own words and representative of his own opinion...  or is it a position that he has been coached to take by others?

The apple does not fall far from the tree.

Margarita


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Offline Jessamy

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2010, 09:14:38 AM »

[/quote]


Your initial question however relates to George, so what are your impressions about his motive?

 
[/quote]

Is is not possible that he wants the investigation re-opened in an effort to find proof enough to make the Russian Orthodox Church accept the remains as that of the IF?

Offline Margot

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2010, 05:30:02 PM »

[/quote]
George's mother is certainly aware of the incontrovertible DNA results on the most recent Ekaterinburg remains. Just imagine her state of mind in having to publicly admit that she made a gross error of judgement about ALL the Imperial Remains and that Prince Nicholas Romanov, head of the Imperial House of Romanov was correct all along.

[/quote]


Oooh Margarita you are marvelous! I wouldn't have dared write that but I completely share you point of view! Mwa ha ha! I'd love to be a fly on her 'palace' wall if and when she ever does accept the "facts"!!
 

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2010, 06:15:15 PM »
 I have said that all along, and also think she is just kissing up to the patriarch. As if that is going to do her a lot of good! As much as I believe in her legitimate claim,  to me she  and her son are just being obstinate and  obstructionist out of rivalry with the other Romanovs.
 BTW, George I can sort of understand, as he  only knows what his mother taught him and naturally  takes her point of view.We have no idea of knowing, but I think Vladimir and Kyril would have welcomed the  discovers of ALL the remains, if they were only alive at the time.
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Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2010, 09:45:02 PM »
I have said that all along, and also think she is just kissing up to the patriarch.

That might well have been the case with the late Patriarch Alexy II (Alexey Ridiger), but with this new guy... I'm not so sure.

The new Patriarch Kirill (Vladimir Gundyayev) is still largely an unknown quantity when it comes to his current thoughts on the identification of the Ekaterinburg remains.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 09:50:08 PM by J_Kendrick »

Offline Carisbrooke

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2010, 01:51:57 AM »
    Were all the answers to the questions formulated in 1998 by the commission?, because if this was so I don't see how question 7 could have been fully answered at that time. Could this be one of Prince Georgy's quibbles.

Question open to all.

Offline Dominic_Albanese

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2010, 08:01:43 PM »
I have said that all along, and also think she is just kissing up to the patriarch. As if that is going to do her a lot of good! As much as I believe in her legitimate claim,  to me she  and her son are just being obstinate and  obstructionist out of rivalry with the other Romanovs.
 BTW, George I can sort of understand, as he  only knows what his mother taught him and naturally  takes her point of view.We have no idea of knowing, but I think Vladimir and Kyril would have welcomed the  discovers of ALL the remains, if they were only alive at the time.

The only problem is that George, "The Heir" as he and his mother refer to him, has a responsibility to seek out other opinions and idea's or else we will continue for years into the future with this foolish rivalary between the branches of the family.  I do admit, I would love to have seen the look on Prince Nicholas's face when he read what George said - I bet it was priceless - he doesn't suffer fools gladly...

dca

Offline Dominic_Albanese

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2010, 08:07:00 PM »
Tchelogovitov ruled that because Maria Pavlovna (elder) was NOT Pravoslavnaya when her children were born, under the laws of succession they were excluded. Somewhere in GARF is his report on the subject to Nicholas II. This whole statement is a waste of time and bid for attention from Georgie who has nothing anyway.

yawn indeed.

FA - can you expand on this - who is Tchelogovitov and what does "NOT Pravoslavnaya" mean?  Do you know what Nicholas did with this report?  Weren't the kids of Vladimir and Maria added to the imperial family genelogy book - the name of which escapes me at the moment....

Thanks Rob

dca

Offline Jessamy

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2010, 08:43:47 AM »
I apologize for this but I am new to the forum and have no knowledge regarding Maria/Georgy or Prince Nicholas and their apparently conflicting opinions regarding the Ekaterinburg remains or the family schism in general. Could admin or any knowledgeable members direct me to where I can learn more about this? Thank you.

Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2010, 09:34:45 AM »
Tchelogovitov ruled that because Maria Pavlovna (elder) was NOT Pravoslavnaya when her children were born, under the laws of succession they were excluded. Somewhere in GARF is his report on the subject to Nicholas II. This whole statement is a waste of time and bid for attention from Georgie who has nothing anyway.

yawn indeed.

FA - can you expand on this - who is Tchelogovitov and what does "NOT Pravoslavnaya" mean?  Do you know what Nicholas did with this report?  Weren't the kids of Vladimir and Maria added to the imperial family genelogy book - the name of which escapes me at the moment....

Thanks Rob

dca

Russian Imperial Law is quite specific, especially on one point. In order to take the throne, amongst other requirements, the Grand Duke in question MUST be born to a Pravoslavnaya (Orthodox) Mother.  Maria Pavlovna did not convert to Orthodoxy until 1905, well after her sons were born.

General Alexander Spiridovitch, Chief of Secret Security Police to the Emperor, in his Memoirs states as a matter of fact that Nicholas II asked Minister of Justice Tcheglovitov to prepare a report about succession rights to the Vladimirovichi descendants.  The report stated without a question that, as a matter of Imperial Succession laws in the Minister's opinion,  because Maria Pavlovna was not Pravoslavnaya (Russian Orthodox) on the day she was married, nor was she when her children were actually born,  her children had no succession rights.  The Ukaze issued by Alexander II giving his consent when Vladimir married Maria Pavlovna stipulated specifically that ONLY Vladimir kept his rights, not his children.  Tcheglovitov was clear in the report that none of the Vladimirovtichi had succession rights to the Imperial Russian Throne because her adoption of Orthodoxy decades later was not "retroactive" because her sons were born to a non Pravoslavnaya mother.  I hope that this document still might exist in GARF and one day it will be found. Spiridovitch was most clear that there were THREE copies of his report, one for Nicholas II, one was sent to Maria Pavlovna, and the third retained in his records.

Just because children are entered into the Almanach de Gotha doesn't mean that they can inherit.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 03:43:18 PM by Forum Admin »

Offline Jessamy

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2010, 11:48:50 AM »
I went on Wikipedia under Prince Nicholas Romanovich and Maria Vladimirovna and now have a basic understanding of the family division.  However I am still curious about their differences of opinion regarding the IF remains. 

Offline Margot

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Re: Georgy wants the Ekaterinburg remains re-examined
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2010, 02:58:01 PM »
Ooooh you go for it FA....you clever resourceful and knowledgeable FA! I did find a similar explanation that you so kindly provided back in October last year and pasted it on MV's thread just to try and explain a point I had! You explain things so much better than I ever could! Thanks!