Where Some Envision Czar’s End, Church Sees Building Site

[rgt9w]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/world/europe/13czar.html?src=me


Discusses controversial plan to build a church on the site where Imperial family's remains were found, as archeologists fear the site will be destroyed.

[EmmyLee]

Whenever something comes up about the Russian Orthodox Church not accepting the remains as those of the IF, it irritates me. I just don't understand why they're being so stubborn about it. And now putting the church there without any intentions of memorials or anything. If they don't plan on memorializing the family, what's the point of putting a church on the site of their burial?

[Terence]

So this is what LisaD was posting about!  IMO this is disgraceful.  Contrary to all ideas of respect for the integrity of historic sites the ROC is proceeding w/ these plans, simply shameful.  There is already a church on the site of the murders.  The site of the burials should be left as it was, a natural site.  Who knows what evidence will be destroyed in the process.
I'd encourage any ROC member to protest thru church channels.  I don't imagine an international petition would have any effect on them, but I'd be glad to sign it.  Maybe some Russians w/ respect for history could chain themselves to trees to stop the project, that would be bad pr for this criminal undertaking.
Sign me disappointed and disgusted w/ such actions,
T

[Belochka]

So this is what LisaD was posting about!  IMO this is disgraceful.  Contrary to all ideas of respect for the integrity of historic sites the ROC is proceeding w/ these plans, simply shameful.  There is already a church on the site of the murders.  The site of the burials should be left as it was, a natural site.  Who knows what evidence will be destroyed in the process.
I'd encourage any ROC member to protest thru church channels.  I don't imagine an international petition would have any effect on them, but I'd be glad to sign it.  Maybe some Russians w/ respect for history could chain themselves to trees to stop the project, that would be bad pr for this criminal undertaking.
Sign me disappointed and disgusted w/ such actions,
T

There is a high probability that other skeletal fragments are still lying submerged in the earth. If The Moscow Patriarch allows this idea to take hold then the Church will send an erroneous message to the world that they stand firmer by the earlier decision made by Alexis II.

To me, this present matter looks rather similar to Yeltsin's order to destroy the Ipatiev House, then years later apologise for his wrongful act, knowing full well that nothing could be undone.

I am immensely saddened that all the stirling efforts provided by many forensic scientists from around the world and including all those others who were actively involved in the excavations or perhaps contributed in other ways towards the authentication process of the Imperial remains, including Peter Sarandinaki of SEARCH, might actually come to this.

Margarita

[Lucien]

Whenever something comes up about the Russian Orthodox Church not accepting the remains as those of the IF, it irritates me. I just don't understand why they're being so stubborn about it. And now putting the church there without any intentions of memorials or anything. If they don't plan on memorializing the family, what's the point of putting a church on the site of their burial?

Highly irritating yes,they're a Totally backward lot,that whole ROC.So absolutely out of tune with this day and age
that they are a total laugh.They should be held in "sanitoria".total wastes of lives,just around for abusing the memory
of the Imperial Family.Likewise the fat lady from Madrid and her "what use is that kid" son,Georgi,the risée of Royal Europe.
Really,no-one ever takes them seriously,they're a hoax,non existant to real Royalty.You can take nothing for granted
anymore these days,even the famous phrase;"It isn't over till the fat lady sings" is a hoax,We got Maria to prove it,she's lost it.

I know,there is a rule that one should behave verbally in regard to living Royalty,and I always do to real Royalty ofcourse.
but this....If I want to see theatre,I go to Covent Garden....not this sort of tingle tangle..it borders the absolute rediculous.


Really,that any-one ever takes them as seriously as they do is a total mystery to me and maybe says even more on those who do listen.

[LisaDavidson]

It's a total "dis" as my kids would say, to the Imperial Family who were sincere Orthodox Christians that the Church they so loved and respected would treat them so very shabbily in death. I want to ask these people - just what are you afriad of? The family has been dead for nearly a centruy and if you share some of their beliefs, they have long received their heavenly reward, and are beyond human suffering.

So the real damage is to the Church itself and since it's not my Church, I will make no comment.

[Ilias_of_John]

Although this thread is supposed to be about the ROC, and I am not a Russian,
I feel that I must say a word about Terence's and others comments .....


Grand Duchesss Maria will be in the U.S.A  shortly, for the commemoration of St. John of San Francisco.
If any one wants to tell her personally, I am certain we could find her itinary so that you could give her your thoughts!



 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Shanghai_and_San_Francisco

[Lucien]

It's a total "dis" as my kids would say, to the Imperial Family who were sincere Orthodox Christians that the Church they so loved and respected would treat them so very shabbily in death. I want to ask these people - just what are you afriad of? The family has been dead for nearly a centruy and if you share some of their beliefs, they have long received their heavenly reward, and are beyond human suffering.

So the real damage is to the Church itself and since it's not my Church, I will make no comment.

Oh but ofcourse you can comment.The Imperial Family never was yours,nor is Russia your country yet you do comment on that.
It's the same,one is entitled to an opinion as contrary to what some think,the world isn't an isolated island.

For the rest I agree with your post entirely.Exactly,what are they afraid of?Or is the Kremlin meddling in all this?

[Ilias_of_John]

I'll let you all in to a little secret.
The church knows EXACTLY who was buried there, and to whom the bones we buried in St.Petersburg belonged to.


It's all about politics and power and influence.

And I got that from someone who knows!!

[Belochka]

... Grand Duchesss Maria will be in the U.S.A  shortly, for the commemoration of St. John of San Francisco.
If any one wants to tell her personally, I am certain we could find her itinary so that you could give her your thoughts!

I respect the fact that you express your good intentions on this Forum, but do you honestly believe that Mariya Vladimirovna would entertain private "thoughts" from strangers, which would be, in her mind, highly disagreeable issues, which directly contradict her publicly declared position regarding the Ekaterinburg remains?

The real problem facing the global community right now, today, is to ensure the continuing preservation of the excavation site in Ekaterinburg, which has historic and religious significance.

Margarita

[Ilias_of_John]

Yes I do.

Her cousins and others, including starngers have spoken to her about these issues and she has listened.

[Belochka]

I'll let you all in to a little secret.
The church knows EXACTLY who was buried there, and to whom the bones we buried in St.Petersburg belonged to.

It's all about politics and power and influence.

Indeed the Church does know EXACTLY who is buried there, which makes the present proposal all the more unpalatable.

The Ekaterinburg skeletal remains deserve nothing less than unconditional RECOGNITION by the Moscow Patriarchy.

Forget the politics, forget the powerplay, what about doing what is morally RIGHT?

Margarita
 

[Belochka]

Yes I do.

Her cousins and others, including starngers have spoken to her about these issues and she has listened.

... and meanwhile young George shortly after his meeting with the Moscow Patriarch, had the temerity to not only ridicule all the highly professional international forensic scientists who were involved with examining and then authenticating the First Ekaterinburg remains but he chose to gleefully mock Soloviev's Inquiry and all of its commissioned participants!

Margarita

[Belochka]

... The church knows EXACTLY who was buried there, and to whom the bones we buried in St.Petersburg belonged to.

It's all about politics and power and influence.

and

I have it on good authority that EVERYONE including Grand Duchess Maria accept the validity of the bones and the fact that they are the IF.
She just hasnt said so publicly, so as not to emabarass herself(I think).
...

Thus it appears that one's ostentatious powerplay appears to facilitate a grand stalemate!

[Ilias_of_John]

God know's if she ever will though Margarita.