The Ducal Families of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

Here is a German biographical article about Andreas Liliencron which concentrates on his role in the Oldenburg Succession case in great detail. But it's still not clear for me why Plön, the youngest branch of the Sonderburg lines, should be heirs along with the royal and Gottorf lines. Because they were the only of the Sonderburg lines with lands in Holstein, i.e. in the Empire, and thus more immediate than the other mere apanaged Sonderburg lines?

Interestingly the article notes that the seed of contention sown in the Oldenburg Succession Case poisoned the Gottorp line's relation to the royal line right up to the Congress of Vienna, where the hostility between Emperor Alexander I and Frederik VI of Denmark was its last flowering.

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

BTW personally I've always thought it strange that royalty buffs don't take more interest in the Dukes Christian August II and Frederik (VIII) of Augustenborg, the Prince of Nør and Christian August of Augustenborg and Sweden. I mean, how often do you find royals who lead revolutions instead of being their victims?
The same goes for the lack of interest in such dramatic, revolutionary characters as the Augustenborgers' cousin and brother-in-law Christian Frederik of Norway - and the prototype of the royal revolutionary: Willem of Orange.

[kmerov]

Yes,in German sites she is referred as Charlotte and in Polish ones she is Caroline...strange :-/

Do you know what was the cause her mother didn't wish such a marriage...maybe religion?Her husband Duke Friedrich was quite close to the Emperor himself...that would be a "good qualification"...maybe she had some bigger plans for her daughter?

I read that after her family died out in male line her allowance was reduced by the Emperor...obviously they were not in such good terms despite his good relationship with her former husband with whom she had a son Leopold...

No, I don't know why but maybe it was money issues. The Emperor was asked to settle the matter at the bequest of Friedrich father and the king of Denmark, and a proper wedding took place, but the marriage was unhappy and they lived seperately. Their son Leopold converted to catholisicm.

[kmerov]

BTW personally I've always thought it strange that royalty buffs don't take more interest in the Dukes Christian August II and Frederik (VIII) of Augustenborg, the Prince of Nør and Christian August of Augustenborg and Sweden. I mean, how often do you find royals who lead revolutions instead of being their victims?
The same goes for the lack of interest in such dramatic, revolutionary characters as the Augustenborgers' cousin and brother-in-law Christian Frederik of Norway - and the prototype of the royal revolutionary: Willem of Orange.

Well, they are minor royals in the 19th century pool of grand Imperial and Royal Houses. Hovewer they are of course written about in Denmark, but also in a lot of other books dealing with 19th century royalty. Frederik (VIII) of Augusenburg, "Fritz Holstein" was a victim of Bismarck and friends with Friedrich III and Victoria, "Vicky" and their children married, so that gives him some coverage.

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

Well, they are minor royals in the 19th century pool of grand Imperial and Royal Houses.

But not all members of "grand Imperial and Royal Houses" are that interesting to read about and discuss. Their obscure, inactive and/or ordinary lives do of course deserve the same respect and attention that any human life does, but I think it's funny that Prince Christian of Augustenborg or S-H is much more discussed just because of who he married, even though there actually is very little we know / can say about him, in stark contrast to those very active relations of his mentioned above, who made (revolutionary) history through their actions.

[kmerov]

Yes, I understand what your are saying, but it is of course a matter of interest, who among the royals gets your attention and why.

[kmerov]

But here is a picture of Prince Frederik of Augustenburg, the Prince of Nør, the other half of the "traitor" brothers. 

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

Patriotic, early 20th-century portrayal of the proclamation of the Provisional Government in 1848, with the Prince of Nør as a leading member center stage: Painting by Hans Olde

the other half of the "traitor" brothers.

It really was rather dishonest, wasn't it, because they used their Danish uniforms to get into the strong fortress of Rendsburg, didn't they?

Interesting that the S-H Constitution of 15th of September 1848 t was "the most democratic constitution Europe had seen".

[kmerov]

Yes, they were dishonest, and breaking their oath of allegiance to Frederik VII aswell. The argument that he was being held captive by revolutionaries, was just an ecxuse to start the war. Duke Christian August of Augustenburg and Frederik of Nør took the opportunity with the rest of the German Schleswig-Holstein movement to try to create a S-H state and join the German Union. 

[kmerov]

And then followed the many posters of the "traitors". Before the national conflicts they would introduce themselves as Danish Princes.

[Naslednik Norvezhskiy]

Does anybody know what kind of relationship the Prince of Nør's children and grandchildren, who married commoners, had with their more princely and royal relations at the courts of both Britain, Prussia and others?

The Prince of Nør's son with his first wife, Friedrich August, Count of Nør, a scholar who was welcomed in Denmark after the banishment of the Augustenborgs was lifted, was married to a certain Carmelita Henriette Sophie Mathilde Eisenblat from Hamburg and had two daughters with her. According to Dansk Biografisk Lexikon, she had to fight a lengthy legal battle with her husband's cousin Prince Christian in Britain to keep ownership of the estates Nör and Grönwohld, which had been a secondogenitur in the Augustenborg family.

Idyllic Noer / Nör / Nør by Eckernförde / Egernførde on the Dänischer Wohld peninsula between Schleswig and Kiel:


I don't think the estates are in private ownership today.

And I'm starting to feel the need for a good overview of the whole Augustenborg genealogy! Something which caught my attention regarding the early Dukes, is that they all had ca. 10 children, but in every generation only one or a few boys and no girls grew up! Taking the high infant mortality of the times into account, it was odd that all except the heir (and spare) died.

While the current (Glücksborg) Dukes of S-H sport the full overcrowded arms featuring Norway, Schleswig, Holstein, Stormarn, Ditmarschen, Oldenburg and Delmenhorst (as did the Danish royal arms untill 1972), the Prussian Augustenborgers, having declared themselves Dukes of S-H, seem to have adopted simplified quartered arms, which I think very beautiful (more so than the current divided per pale S-H state arms) especially because of the more symmetrical colour scheme; here depicted in the alliance arms of Auguste Victoria and Wilhelm of Prussia:


Does anybody know if the British Augustenborgers also sported these simplified arms, despite not being descended from Duke Friedrich VIII?

For comparison, the traditional arms that was common for all the S-H lines (every quarter except Schleswig has a red field) - and the modern S-H state arms:
 

[kmerov]

Does anybody know what kind of relationship the Prince of Nør's children and grandchildren, who married commoners, had with their more princely and royal relations at the courts of both Britain, Prussia and others?

The Prince of Nør's son with his first wife, Friedrich August, Count of Nør, a scholar who was welcomed in Denmark after the banishment of the Augustenborgs was lifted, was married to a certain Carmelita Henriette Sophie Mathilde Eisenblat from Hamburg and had two daughters with her. According to Dansk Biografisk Lexikon, she had to fight a lengthy legal battle with her husband's cousin Prince Christian in Britain to keep ownership of the estates Nör and Grönwohld, which had been a secondogenitur in the Augustenborg family.

I think that at least his children had contacts with European courts. In the 1850s they lived in Paris and met with European royalty there.

[Marc]

Just curios,where members of these Duchies no matter how small they were ever considered or treated as "cousins" by for example Russian Imperial Family who were also one branch of the family?Denmark had strong ties and connections with them and I assume that they are more or less treated as such by the RF...

[kmerov]

I think they were treated as cousins by the Russian IF, just as the Danish RF was. Christian IX grand father, Duke Friedrich of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck served in the Russian military for some years.

[Marc]

Thanks for this...in a letter to Emperor Nicholas II Princess Leonille zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Sayn signed herself in the end as "your devoted cousin Leonille"...I often wondered why a "cousin" and I looked into genealogy and saw that her grandmother was Princess Catharina von Holstein-Sonderburg-Beck(1750-1811) and that that was maybe the reason she felt that kind of relation-her grandmother being of the same family as the Emperor himself...

That would also explain that those other lines of the Oldenburg were treated favorably in Russia...although distantly related they could always see themselves as cousins as members of the same extended family as the Imperial one...