Author Topic: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary  (Read 16774 times)

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rskkiya

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2004, 02:38:04 PM »
Ok  -- thanks for the explaination!

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2004, 04:21:26 PM »
Ch. 14 of the "Memoirs" Simanovitch writes that in 1912, Admiral Tchagine, Commander of the Standardt, shot himself because Nagorny and Derevenko, assigned to watch Alexei actually tried to KILL Alexei on board the Standardt, resulting in injury to Alexei's foot. Raputin miraculously healed this injury. Nicholas was so incensed that he wrote a scathing letter to Tchagine blaming him, so Tchagine killed himself.

Pretty much all fiction, based on a few actual facts. Alexei did hurt his foot on the Standardt. The doctor's reports exist.  We all KNOW that neither Derevenko nor Nagorny ever tried to KILL Alexei.  We know that Adm. Tchagine was one of Nicholas's closest friends, and was beloved by N&A both.  We know that Tchagine was confronted by a young girl he had slept with in Yalta earlier that year, who followed him to Petersburg with her parents demanding he marry her. Rather than face the public scandal, he shot himself. We have letters from N&A referencing their shock and sadness at the loss of Tchagine and the total surprise of his suicide.

pg. 178: (brief translation): "The Tsar's greatest fault transformed this truly sweet, tender and well brought up man into a monster and wild animal: it was his alcoholism.  Nicholas II drank alot, often he was dead-drunk, no longer having a human appearance, and in these moments he was dreadful.    Sensual transportation carried him away and his mistress was the victim of sorrowful torture and atrocities, since in the sexual realm he was not a normal man...."
pg. 179: "I do not wish to speak here of everything that occured in the Imperial alcove; I will stop only to speak of the two principle mistresses of the Tsar, those who suffered all of the consequences of the alcoholic perversions of Nicholas II.  That was Mme Vyroubova, the lady of honor and friend of the Empress and the pretty Georgian princess Sophie Orbeliani....
They lived in fear of his passion for alcohol and the resulting sadism.  He went to them by force, furiously mad in his drunkenness, and tortured them for long periods. Every passing year this terrible sadism took greater and greater proportions becoming larger and larger....
The wife of the Tsar not only closed her eyes to the amourous adventures of the Tsar, she even protected the women which the emperor singled out."

Need I really continue??

Offline Merrique

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2004, 04:38:09 PM »
From what you have written so far FA it definately seems like this book of memoirs is mostly crap with very few facts.It's a shame what some people will do to make money.
Don't knock on Death's door....ring the doorbell and run. He hates that.:D

Richard_Cullen

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2004, 02:07:51 AM »
Hi,

Sorry been away for a few days but two points I agree with what FA says on this subject.  The second is and I have posted this elsewhere Rasputin does have relatives.  When we were in St Petersburg his grand daughter was there in the Yusupov Palace - we were going to try and reconcile her with Yusupov's grand daughter but the directors thought it would be a bit tacky.

Richard

Sunny

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2004, 06:55:52 AM »
Forum Admin, please don't continue...what a horror show.

Sunny

helenazar

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2004, 09:07:00 AM »
It all certainly sounds very tabloid-ish, and it seems like Mr Simanovich may have mixed some fact with fiction to give his stories more credibility, but had gone a little overboard with the fiction part perhaps. Did he actually sell a lot of copies of his memoirs?  I never came across this book, but I did know it existed. But then again, if it was never translated from French, the market may be pretty limited anyway.

Offline RichC

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2004, 06:26:01 PM »
Dear Richard,

Can you tell us more about Rasputin's grand daughter?  Has she been living in St. Petersburg all these years?  

Rich

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2005, 10:41:46 AM »
Quote
.... [ in part]....
Since the forum has grown I find the disputes about who is right about this or that unnecessarily divisive.  I hope I have 'repented', 'grown-up' and are more tolerant of other opinions.  We are all friends here!

Bob


Although Bob wasn't talking about Simanovitch in the post above, I think it's worth repeating on this thread.  It is something that needs to be remembered no matter what subject is being discussed.

I've never paid attention to the threads on Rasputin until the other day when a friend mentioned he was finding these threads interesting.

When I read the first post here by Delin,  I thought, isn't this great.  Here we have someone who's relative Aron Simanovtich, who was Rasputin's secretary, starting off this thread.

Then suddenly  "bombs of dislike" fell direcetly on Simanovitch's character.

What could Delin say in responce?

Quote
It's interesting to me that some of you seem to have personal knowledge of the tzar and tzarina's characters, and while Aron certainly had an inflated sense of self-importance, there is documentation as to the pogroms that were thwarted due to Rasputin's intervention, the 200 jewish dentists who were released from house arrest, due to Rasputin's intervention, the many jews who, due to Rasputin's intervention, were admitted to universities, even though the jewish quotas were filled.  If you only read 3 or 4 chapters of the book, you're really not in a position to discount the actual historical cases  that were enumerated and easily validated.  Maria Rasputin also validates Rasputin's interventions on the part of the Jews, in her books.  And she had no vested interest in supporting Aron's claims.  But people will always believe the version of history that is told by those who are in power.  The common man who has experienced it is rarely considered a source to be believed.


"...people will always believe the version of history that is told by those who are in power.  The common man who has experienced it is rarely considered a  source to be believed,"  Delin voiced.

Let me remind everyone.  Simanovitch was living and breathing in a time and a place in which we wish we had a "time machine" to visit.  He wrote, I assume, what he experienced and thought was the truth. Added to this, Delin agrees, " Aron certainly had an inflated sense of self-importance..."

All of us view life differently.  For example,  my great great grandmother was quite a character.  If she saw someone drink one beer, she considered them alcholics.  If she saw someone eat meat,  she thought them barbaric savages.  If you didn't attend the church she did, you were going to hell.  

Instead of riping Simanovitch's  words to shreds, perhaps,  we should get to know him better through his great great  niece Delin.  I for one would find it an interesting journey.

Since I do not have a copy of Simanovitch's writings,  I can not comment on his various entries as had Admin. Forum.  

Since Admin. Forum doesn't agree that Nicholas II was an alcoholic, a womanizer and absolutely never had any kind of discord with his wife, so be it.  Such things can be discussed over on a thread for Nicholas II.

What about the other questions such as Rasputin's "good side" which is rarely, if ever, explored?

Delin wrote: "there is documentation as to the pogroms that were thwarted due to Rasputin's intervention, the 200 jewish dentists who were released from house arrest, due to Rasputin's intervention, the many jews who, due to Rasputin's intervention, were admitted to universities, even though the jewish quotas were filled.  If you only read 3 or 4 chapters of the book, you're really not in a position to discount the actual historical cases  that were enumerated and easily validated.  Maria Rasputin also validates Rasputin's interventions on the part of the Jews, in her books.  And she had no vested interest in supporting Aron's claims.  But people will always believe the version of history that is told by those who are in power.  The common man who has experienced it is rarely considered a source to be believed."

Did Rasputin take part in the activities dealing with the Jews?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2005, 11:26:45 AM »
"He wrote, I assume, what he experienced and thought was the truth. Added to this, Delin agrees, " Aron certainly had an inflated sense of self-importance..." "

HOW can you make the assumption? Simply look at today's "tell all books" about Princess Diana, Bill Clinton, or even "Mommy Dearest"... Don't tell me that every single one of these sensationalist authors writes everything they believe to be the truth. How many simply repeat the most lurid gossip or rumors without any evidence simply because it makes for better sales?

""bombs of dislike" fell direcetly on Simanovitch's character. "
My exact words:
I mean no disrespect to Ms. Colon, but, frankly, there is so much complete fabrication and self-serving dis-information in them it is hard to know what is true and what is not.

 the book seems to have been written more to gain widespread readership and thus income, than to have been an accurate account of what he experienced. 

Certainly there IS some truth to what he wrote. The problem is that he, frankly and bluntly MADE UP alot of what he wrote.

Where are there "bombs of dislike" for Simanovich?

As for this: Since Admin. Forum doesn't agree that Nicholas II was an alcoholic, a womanizer and absolutely never had any kind of discord with his wife, so be it

Since much of THIS book contains such assertions, they DO belong HERE as they attest to the accuracy and veracity of the Author who makes them.

So do YOU AGR believe that Nicholas II was an alcohlolic womanizer obsessed with Sadistic sexual relations with many women other than his wife? THAT is just ONE of the assertions Simanovich makes.

Instead of riping Simanovitch's  words to shreds, perhaps,  we should get to know him better through his great great  niece Delin

First, the word is spelled "ripping". Any author is judged by the accuracy of their works. Part of getting to know him IS this book. Second, I believe Ms. Delin never even met Aron, and her father was only six when he met him. so, honestly how much FIRST hand information is there to be had?

AGR, you yourself "rip to shreds" the words of Yurovsky as you deem him untrustworthy. WHY is dear Simanovich an exception for you?

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2005, 12:14:59 PM »
I didn't realize spelling was taken public but noticed, reported by personal mail, so the word could be corrected and life can go on.

My mention of  having no knowledge of Simanovitch's life is clearly stated.

My intentions of getting to know Aron Simanovitch though his own family is, also, quite clear.

My information about Nicholas II's drinking habits is known only through the same information you've probably read.  I am not aware of any problems.  However, his father was known as a "mean drunk" and usually this means the child often times has the same reaction to booze.  And, remember, my example of my great great grandmother.....  Perhaps Simanovitch found drinking of any kind just as offensive as my great great grandmother.

Did Nicholas II have a mistress?  I think this is/ was discussed on another thread.  I have no comments one way or another.  Why?  Like you, I am not aware of any mistresses.  And, I do not know very much about the lives of the two women Simanovitch did mention.

What has my thoughts about Yurovsky have to do with Simanovitch?  Was Simanovaitch a Bolshvik?  A CHEKA?  A revolutionary?

Did Simanovitch realize that Nicholas II did not like Rasputin and he was protecting Rasputin by throwing out "rumors" he had heard to show Nicholas II was not perfect either?  Was there more then making a living on "sensationism" of his writings?

Maybe Simanovitch did wittness a moment when Nicholas II and Alexandra were in disagreement.  My goodness,  it is possible.  Just think of all the strain these two people were under.  However, in those days,  it was not considered "correct" to write about the personal lives of the Tsar and show his flaws.

Sucides were another personal tragedy and the truth of such matters were often covered over....  Again, I have no knowledge of this particular event being discussed.  

Just take a look at the lives of our US presidents.  People -- at the time the events occured-- didn't kow about F.D. Roosevelt's bout with polio, or John Kennedy's affair with Marilyn Monroe and who knows how many affairs Clinton has had....  

Since Delin may have information about Simanovitch, I would like to know from her more about a man who viewed Nicholas II with such contempt, because, if that is what he felt,  he was not alone, I hear the tone in Delin's postings as well as posting of others here on the forum.  


Let me repeat:  I have not denied what Admin. Forum said as being wrong about Simanovitch's writings,  accept one point,  I think the royal couple must have had a quarrel or differences of opinions, as our family calls these moments,  during their marriage.  But, in saying this,  I have no evidnece, accept, having lived life for 62 years and knowing personally what happens in marriages under strained conditions.

AGRBear  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

helenazar

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2005, 12:29:32 PM »
Quote
However, his father was known as a "mean drunk" and usually this means the child often times has the same reaction to booze.  

Although alcoholism is a genetic disease, you cannot  assume that a child of an alcoholic is automatically an alcoholic too. This would make the majority of earth's population alcoholics. So unless you have specific evidence, this is not a fair statement.

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2005, 12:53:20 PM »
Quote
Although alcoholism is a genetic disease, you cannot  assume that a child of an alcoholic is automatically an alcoholic too. This would make the majority of earth's population alcoholics. So unless you have specific evidence, this is not a fair statement.


If you thought I said Nicholas II was an alcoholic,  let me state: I do not know if Nicholas II had a problem with alcohol.

The father of Nicholas II, Alexander III,  did have a problem. He was a "mean drunk".  As you've said, I, too, think,  alcoholism is a genetic disease.   The possibility of Nicholas II's reaction, if he did get drunk at any time in his life, may have been the same kind of reaction of his father's, or, he may have just been silly.  I don't know.

So,  let's get back to Aron Simanovitch's writings about Rasputin and his interventions which involved the Jews.

AGRBear  
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2005, 03:02:50 PM »
Delin Colon may have returned but never posted.

We, again,  lost someone who may have given us a more personal insight into a person in history connected to the IF.  
This is sad  :'(

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

helenazar

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2005, 05:50:48 PM »
Quote

If you thought I said Nicholas II was an alcoholic,  let me state: I do not know if Nicholas II had a problem with alcohol.

 


No, you said "his father was known as a 'mean drunk' and usually this means the child often times has the same reaction to booze", which sounds like you are implying that Nicholas had a drinking problem like his father. Yes, alcoholism is genetic, but we can't assume this about Nicholas just because his father was an alcoholic, plus you really can't make a general statement like this unless there is some sort of additional evidence, which there doesn't seem to be.

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Re: Aron Simanovitch, Rasputin's secretary
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2005, 04:10:29 PM »
Let me repeat:  If you thought I said Nicholas II was an alcoholic,  let me state: I do not know if Nicholas II had a problem with alcohol.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152