Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family

[LisaDavidson]

We should set a timeline so that everyone knows when arguments, etc, will take place. I am assuming this will get going some time in January?

[Belochka]

January is a good time to initiate proceedings. The holiday season will be behind us.

Jane,

Could Lisa and I (The Defense team) avail ourselves of your learned opinions? Should our communications be best done by PM?  
 
Rob,

What about placing an announcement on the primary topic page so that this trial can be formally announced to the world (no perception of a secret trial here), to enable wider audience participation?

Secondly, expressions of interest can be entertained from potential jurors.  

How should jury selection proceed? How many are to sit on the panel?  

Rather than undergoing jury selection, should we accept on the basis of first come first served?  Except using this approach, the jury will be stacked unfairly, to which the Defense will object.

At least the venue is not under dispute!
 
Congratulations on your new appointment!  

[Richard_Cullen]

Rob, thanks for the information on the idictment might I ask do you wish to act as Judge, or Chief Prosecutor, or are you our guide 'clerk to the court' or whatever?

If not those of us who wish to be involved in the prosecution need to get our act together.  If Rob indicates as above and if he does not wish to prosecute we need to agree the team and then conduct the development of our case via e-mail to prevent giving the defence team an insight into what we will say and produce as evidence - or are we into pre trial disclosure here?

Prosecution will begin by:
1. Identifying each member of the Prosecution team (work this out yourselves privately) and who will serve as lead.
2. Identify first the "INTENT" of the Defendant that the crime occur. then
3. Identify MOTIVE for the Crime then
4. What acts the Defendant undertook to CAUSE the crime or identify WHY Defendant is directly responsible for the commission of the crime
5. What opportunity Defendant had to commit the crime.

Selecting a jury will be difficult so many people have very strong bias towards either the prosecution or the defence the Alexander Palace - maybe it is trial by a Judge only?

January is a brilliant time to start the proceedings.

SO BIG QUESTION WHO WANTS TO BE ON THE PROSECUTION TEAM?

Regards as ever

Richard

Richard

[Forum Admin]

Richard,
I have no wish to serve either Prosecution nor Defense. I will serve as Judge with respect to the proceedings (though Jane, PLEASE feel free to drop me a line or speak up if I miss something...my specialty was Real Estate Law, though I clerked for a criminal Defense attorney (a FAMOUS one...) during Law School).

Rather than tie up the thread, I propose as follows:
I "appoint" Richard C. temporary lead Prosecutor. All wishing to participate in prosecution, please PRIVATELY contact Richard, and you work out amongst yourselves who will be official LEAD and the whole team. THEN announce in one posting who the team will be.  I "appoint" Lisa Davidson temporary lead for Defense, and Defense will do the same. Kindly conduct your preliminary work, both sides, outside the Public Forum and present ONE preliminary argument.

I believe Nicholas is entitled to a jury trial (tho his "peers" may be hard to find..

Given this excersise is for all interested, more than the genuine outcome?, I propose that at the final close of each Charge, I will write Jury instructions. All wishing to vote may do so, but ONLY post the word Guilty or Not Guilty, no discussion. UNLESS 12 readers contact me personally who HONESTLY can restrict themselves to the evidence presented and reach an unbiased conclusion...
Am open to suggestions on this.

Also, just a reminder that so far, there is only ONE charge in the indictment, and only against Nicholas II. It may be easier for both sides if people wish to present further charges now....

[Jane]

Could Lisa and I (The Defense team) avail ourselves of your learned opinions? Should our communications be best done by PM? 

Absolutely, Belochka, feel free to send me a PM, and I will be happy to offer whatever assistance I can.  The offer is extended equally to the prosecution team.  I can assure both sides of complete neutrality and complete discretion.

I have been on both sides of the courtroom, as a defense attorney and as a prosecutor, so as I stated above, I'm neutral here.  Also, since I may be acting as a "friend to the court" during the trial, I am not going to be serving as a juror, as it would be inappropriate, especially since I may be serving as a sounding board for one or both sides.

As far as the jury is concerned, one possible suggestion is that perhaps a different thread could be created for those who wish to possibly serve as  jurors.  They must be willing to adhere to the Court's dictum to keep an open mind, etc.  Basically, they must submit a post indicating their interest.  Then the Court e.g. Rob) could randomly select 12 jurors (plus two alternates, since this is potentially a capital case, even though the defendant is being tried in abstentia) from that list.  I don't think, for purposes of this exercise, that we need burden the attorneys with voir dire, as you typically end up with a random selection anyway (the JoEllen Demetriuses of the world notwithstanding).

Also, we might curry a larger potential jury pool if the notice is posted prominently on the front page of the forum, as Belochka has suggested.

Depending on our attorneys' schedules, I do think there ought to be a deadline for filing the information/indictment/complaint (terminology varies amongst jurisdictions, so call it what you will), simply to streamline the proceedings and allow the defense adequate time to prepare to respond.  

Edited for those pesky misspellings

[Forum Admin]

OK,
As for the Jury, I will ask those who wish to serve as Jurors to PM me with their interest. For the sake of fairness, I think the Jurors should remain anonymous until the verdict.

As for the filing, due to the Holidays, I will expect the Prosecution initial proceedings posted on or before January 10, 2005 (Monday). A request for continuance for more time can be requested upon showing good cause.

After Jan 1. I think two calendar weeks after posting of each indictment for first proceedings? 2 calendar weeks for defense, etc.

[Belochka]

Judge Rob,

If one applies for a continuance, must this application be filed here directly or will a PM submission be more acceptable?

[Belochka]

Absolutely, Belochka, feel free to send me a PM, and I will be happy to offer whatever assistance I can.  

I don't think, for purposes of this exercise, that we need burden the attorneys with voir dire,

Depending on our attorneys' schedules, I do think there ought to be a deadline for filing the information/indictment/complaint (terminology varies amongst jurisdictions, so call it what you will), simply to streamline the proceedings and allow the defense adequate time to prepare to respond.  

Thanks Jane!

I believe that voire dire could become too personal for this sort of medium. Perhaps Judge Rob will be able to impanel the jury with fair minded citizens on our behalf? The only problem is that the Defense will not be able to exercise any peremptory challenges

Deadlines (with continuances) will be the best approach.

Should we start a new "official thread" when the Court is in session and leave this one open for general daily notices?

[LisaDavidson]

I'd like to let everyone know that after Rob asked me to temporarily head up the defense, I wrote Belochka and asked her to take the first chair. We would both appreciate help from others with a legal or related background to help us out. Neither one of us want to let anyone down.

[Forum Admin]

I want to keep THIS thread for general comments and progress about the Trial as a whole. Continuance questions, procedural matters of a specific nature should be to me via PM. ALL discussion between Prosecution and Defense is to be via PM only.  I will post announcements here as needed.

I will impanel the jury, I have had some volunteers already but I need MORE!  I would rather not go into peremptory challenges or voir dire by either side. IF I suspect a problem I will contact each side privately. I don't want hurt feelings or personal attacks in the public. I hope you understand.

Belochka, there "official thread" for the first count has been opened already and the Indictment is there to review.

More importantly. WE STILL ONLY HAVE ONE COUNT in the indictment. I would like to put all the counts up as soon as possible rather than try them piecemeal. so PLEASE, even if you don't want to be ON the prosecution team per se you can file a charge here...What happened to all those "crimes against humanity" I kept seeing over and over on the other threads???

[Richard_Cullen]

Rob,

Do we address you now as 'Your Honour' or 'My lord' - very British titles - as you would undoubtedly be a high court judge in this country maybe it should be 'My Lord.'

But that is an aside 'everyone knows you sre the judge' (old song).

The prosecution team, Pushkina, Elizabeth and others are working on other indictments and we will send them to you as soon as possible.  We might struggle to put everything together in time for the January deadline but will have several charges ready for the indictment.  So come you you guys and gals who have posted claims of human rights breaches by the IF let us have the facts!!

We are a small but dedicated team and would welcome anyone else who wished to support us to PM me directly we can then set up a network between those with an interest in prosecution.

For information I am taking the lead on the 1st Indictment that you have already posted.  I will also take a lead on the issue of the vicarious liability of teh Tsar as an autocrat.

Richard

[Forum Admin]

Richard
The January deadline is two fold. It is for ALL charges in the indictment AND for the First Statement of the Prosecution for Count 1.  You will have 2 calendar weeks after submitting each Count to present the first statment for THAT Count. Is that clear? does that seem fair?
and please. No "my lord"...LOL....I guess in the trial thread "your honor" is ok...

[Belochka]

The Defense is calling for all interested parties who wish to submit any information which they believe will help to defend Nikolai.

We will be pleased if all submissions can be PM'd either to LisaD or myself.

It's not too late should anyone wish to act as consultants to the Defense team.

Any help will be appreciated,

Thanks,

The Team for the Defense  

[Maria_Romanov_fan]

Quick question...
Was there even a trial?

[Louise]

Quick Answer--No... .. Sorry, just joking with you.

No, there was no trial. The IF was shot without a trial on a decision some feel was made by Lenin, and others feel the decision was made by the Ural committe.

Maria, if you are interested in learning more about the Romanovs, I would suggest you start with reading Nicholas and Alexandra. It is a great book for beginners, and it will certainly give you a wonderful base for your education. Hope this helps

Louise