Author Topic: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family  (Read 218873 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #180 on: March 03, 2005, 08:07:10 PM »
Thank you, your Honor.

Belochka


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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #181 on: March 04, 2005, 11:22:58 AM »
Respectfully, "Divine retribution" was not mentioned.
The quote was: ""Poetic Justice" and perhaps "Divine" interventions seem to be taking prevalence in this particular situation as they sometimes do in life."  

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #182 on: March 19, 2005, 12:32:29 AM »
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Your Honor,

The Defense moves that the Prosecution delivers its Indictment along with a Statement of Facts and Contentions by 14 March 2005.

We also move that if your Honor does not receive these documents, then the case be dismissed.

Belochka for the Defense



With respect, your Honor, the Defense has been enormously patient waiting for a ruling on our request for dismissal. We have waited and waited. I really feel we have waited long enough.

Might we expect a ruling soon?

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #183 on: March 19, 2005, 10:08:58 AM »
19 March 2005.

Given the lack of prosecution of the single charge filed and the failure of further charges to be filed in the matter of People vs. Nicholas II Romanov, the charge in this matter is hereby dismissed WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

The Court has taken into account the unavoidable personal circumstances of the Prosecution team in this decision, and also takes into account the fact that there is no pressing issue requiring a "speedy trial" in the instant matter.  Therefore, my decision is to grant a Dismissal Without Prejudice which will allow the Prosecution team to re-file any charges they may wish to bring at a subsequent date.  This decision will not alter any rules, guidelines or other procedural matters, should a charge be filed subsequently, and they shall still be in force for any such subequent filings.

There being no further business before this Court, this dismissal without prejudice is so Ordered by the Court and this Court shall stand adjourned.

Robert Moshein
Acting Procedural Judge.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #184 on: March 20, 2005, 05:40:20 PM »
Thank you, Your Honor.

Team for the Defense  :( :( :(


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Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #185 on: March 20, 2005, 06:02:26 PM »
Belochka would like to thank her very patient Defense Team, LisaD and James1941 for their continued support and enthusiasm to participate on the Defense Team.

I would also like to thank Your Honor. The Defense Team will be more than pleased to entertain a new trial at the next appropriate filed date.

On behalf of the Defense, I would like to extend our sincere good wishes to the Prosecution Team. May their personal issues be suitably resolved, so that we can all participate with this unique intellectual exercise.

We await for further instructions from Your Honor.

Thank you.

Belochka for the Defense. :)


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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #186 on: March 29, 2005, 12:22:38 PM »
Well I have never had a case dismissed before!  I hope I will be able to pull something together but don't hold me to a date yet.  Can I lodge the first count on the indictment again?  Or is there a tsarist plot to prevent prosecution - only joking!

I have all my original material - have things moved on, if someone else wants to lead the prosecution I am quite happy to support them, whatever.

As you know I have had major probelms with my dad and managing my mum, but things have become routine now and life has settled down for my wife and I so I do have some spare time.

Just so it is no surprise my first argument was going to be (and still will be if we proceed) why Nicholas should stand trial.  Accepting that in 1917 - 1918 the view was corectly taken that what he did as an autocrat meant he could not be placed on trial.  I would argue that things have moved on and he should be subject to human rights legislation.  

I need some time to put this into some form of order and then I will set out the facts about 'Bloody Sunday'  I accept ab initio that the Tsar was not at the Winter Palace and he did not directly give the order to fire, but he as 'the autocrat and de facto commander in chief of the military' was vicariously liable for the deaths etc.

So some opening thoughts as 'advanced disclosure'.  I will get in touch with the defence team and see if they are willing to take up the challenge again?  We are few in number but magnificent in intellect and spirited in our pursuit for justice. Small but perfectly formed I would suggest.

Thanks for your forebearance over the last couple of months it is appreciated.

Richard

I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #187 on: March 29, 2005, 08:36:19 PM »
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Thanks for your forebearance over the last couple of months it is appreciated.

Richard


Welcome back Richard! ;D

The Defense will pleased to entertain a new date. We are also equally keen to see that justice be served.

His Honor will hopefully re-set a new date for the Trial at his earliest convenience.

The Team for the Defense  :D :D :D


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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #188 on: March 30, 2005, 09:20:01 AM »
The Court will re-open the single count filed upon notice from the Prosecution of an approximate plan of time required for trial.  I sense that while the Prosecution is eager to proceed, they do not yet have the ability to hold to a specific schedule.  When the Court is confident that the matter may proceed in timely fashion, we will re-convene.

Acting Procedural Judge
Robert Moshein


Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #189 on: March 30, 2005, 06:42:40 PM »
Thank you Your Honor.

Team for the Defense  :) :) :)


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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #190 on: March 31, 2005, 06:56:12 AM »
Your Honour

I am seeking a directions hearing on how you would wish the prosecution to proceed and to define how the case will proceed.

1. My intention would be to open with issues that support both Count 1 of the indictment but will be applicable to further counts that may be laid.  These issues are around the acceptance that Nicholas II ruled as an autocrat; be was de facto the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Services; that the Okhrana were the Tsar's Secret Police and Intelligence Service; that the concept of vicarious liability applies to an autocrat.  ???

2. That for the purposes of this trial and any possible future trials that the defence cannot rely upon the Russian law of the period that led even Trotsky to the view that there could be no prosecution of the Tsar for torts done when he was the 'autocratic ruler'.  If they were allowed to rely on this archaic Russian law there could be no realistic chance of a prosecution getting passed the arraingment stage.

3. Do we need to discuss case law in the trial and submissions - interesting to lawyers but mind boggling to non lawyers or will broad concepts be enough for example: to state what vicarious liability is and to give examples of this?  Case law could cause problems I would tend to use English law I guess others might use US, Canadian law etc.  This could be difficult as definitions and interpretations vary significantly.  Maybe we could agree a definition of vicarious liability for instance ???

4. How do we get evidence and submissions into the thread - some could be quite lengthy - do we forward to you or is there some other way?

5. Although I some actual eye witness accounts to the events of 9 january 1905 I would generally use 3rd party historical fact - is this permissible - otherwise with the absence of anyone still being alive who was present on the day and has a memory of it the prosecution would be stuffed for witnesses?

6. Have we got enough members for a jury and can I vet them to ensure they are not all Tsarist sympathisers! (Only joking  ;D)  Mind you the outcome doesn't really bother me it is the learning that will come out of it and the intellectual exercise of arguing the case that matters.

Regards

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #191 on: March 31, 2005, 10:14:06 AM »
To the Prosecution:
My intention would be to open with issues that support both Count 1 of the indictment but will be applicable to further counts that may be laid.  These issues are around the acceptance that Nicholas II ruled as an autocrat; be was de facto the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Services; that the Okhrana were the Tsar's Secret Police and Intelligence Service; that the concept of vicarious liability applies to an autocrat.
Once you can establish to the satisfaction of the Court any issue in the first charge which may be applicable to any subsequent charge(s), you may simply request the Court take Judicial Notice of the previously established issue you wish to raise.  The Defense, of course, may attempt to rebut or prevent the notice being taken by raising appropriate issues.

2.  Imperial Russian Law will not be controlling for any issue raised in the charges.  The controlling law will be the Canadian Protocol, and any further law of Crimes against Humanity either side suggests to be relevant. However, nothing prevents either side from asking the Court and Jury to consider Imperial Russian Law as it may relate to the actions of any defendant(s) as an indication of guilt, innocence or culpability, on a case by case basis.

3. I would suggest that case law be submitted privately to the Court for consideration, again using the Canadian protocols for guidance.  Please cite only the case, court, date and relevant points of law. Should I require the full case, I will request it. Guidance about consideration by the jury will be made via a ruling in open court.  "Vicarious liability" of an absolute monarch, Mr. Prosecutor, must be established as a matter of law by you as part of the trial process. You may argue any nation's law you wish, however, it must also be demonstrated why this court should consider any point of law over any other (ie: in the US, you may raise California law in a Texas court to prove a point, but must demonstrate why it should be accepted in the instant matter).

4. Re: evidentiary submissions. In order to prevent prejudice to the jury, Evidence to be submitted will FIRST be proffered to opposing counsel by private email.  Opposing counsel may accept or object to inclusion of the specific evidence.  Agreed evidence will be submitted via email to the Court, for inclusion in the record for the Jury.  Dispute over evidence will be resolved privately via email to the court. One motion from each side (sent also to opposing counsel) then one rebuttal each side, same format. Then a ruling from the Court.

5.  Historical evidence may be considered.  this is simply evidence like any other and shall be treated as in 4 supra. Reliabilty of the source may be challenged by opposing counsel.

6.We have a minimal jury.  I would actually like to see a few more jurors if possible.  Counsel will have to accept the word of the Court that jurors have been "vetted" by the Court and no preemptory challenge to a juror shall be considered. I want jurors to be totally anonymous save to the Court.

So ruled this 31st day of March, 2005
Robert Moshein
Acting Procedural Judge.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by admin »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #192 on: March 31, 2005, 07:26:44 PM »
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Counsel will have to accept the word of the Court that jurors have been "vetted" by the Court and no preemptory challenge to a juror shall be considered. I want jurors to be totally anonymous save to the Court.

So ruled this 31st day of March, 2005
Robert Moshein
Acting Procedural Judge.


Due to the perculiar circumstances of this Trial, the Defense Team are pleased to accept that the Court has suitably "vetted" members of the Jury in a manner fair and reasonable to all attending Counsel.

The Defense Team  :) :) :)


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Offline highlowhall

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #193 on: September 11, 2005, 10:54:25 AM »
Nicholas firstly, wasn´t prepared in any way whatsoever to take on the role of Emperor, considering  his father was such as great man, he didnt exactly prèpare his son for the mighty task ahead.

And Nicholas was a victim of a rapidly changing era, I believe any man placed in Nicholas´s place would have had a tough time. Russia being such a vast country, he was far removed from the poverty of his people.

Also he was a gentle, family man, the great remembered rulers that come to mind were ruthless and deliberate.

So I conclude, he was a victim of circumstance, although I do hold him responsible for some very stupid mistakes, perhaps if he had been better prepared as a politian, he could have evolved with Russia.



Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #194 on: September 12, 2005, 02:37:15 AM »
Hi highlowhall,

Welcome to the forum.

Your sentiments are appreciated, however there is a specific thread which discusses Nikolai's positive attributes:

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=nicky;action=display;num=1116891164;start=225#225

You are welcome to contribute there.

Belochka  :)


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