Author Topic: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family  (Read 224115 times)

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Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2004, 10:58:12 PM »
Thanks Rob.

I could only be part of the defense team. Who wishes to join this side?


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Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2004, 02:43:18 AM »
I would be quite happy to prosecute, if I have the time.  Which of you has all the evidence or parts of it?

Richard
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And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
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Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

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Offline pushkina

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #92 on: December 05, 2004, 03:33:13 AM »
i ask that as events to be considered against nicholas,two that we don't normally discuss: the 1907 russian agreement with britain which effectively caused the north of iran to be dominated by russian and  the russian government's direct miitary interference in the iranina constitution revolution in 1911, which lead to the final crushing of the revolution.

both of these events lead to many, many dead, injured, famine and the looting of persia (under the russian cossacks snet there by the tsar) and more that i will be happy to submit if i have a little time to get it together.

looting, pillaging, oppressing foreign populations should all be able to be considered.
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Offline Forum Admin

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2004, 11:20:45 AM »
Pushkina
You are putting the cart before the horse.
The specific charges must first be laid. What crimes SPECIFICALLY do you believe are supported by the evidence you put out.
As I said before, those wishing to prosecute must first lay out the "indictment", that is the bill of charges, with the evidence to support them.
So please, no more evidence until you (plural meaning those wanting to prosecute) lay out the charges, then bring on the evidence. I will then create the bill of indictment, so the Defense team can respond directly.

Offline Richard_Cullen

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2004, 02:43:54 PM »
I need to free up some time to research dates etc from books.

This would make a good Tv programme, the trial of the Tsar - or maybe we could try his murderers first and then as part of their defence hear details of the Tsar's crime against humanity.

Richard
I feel like one
Who treads alone
Some banquet-hall deserted,
Whose lights are fled,
Whose garlands dead,
And all, but he, departed!
Refrain:
Thus, in the stilly night,
Ere slumber’s chain hath bound me,
Sad mem’ry brings the light
Of other days around me.

Thomas Moore 1815

Offline pushkina

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2004, 06:55:28 PM »
Quote
Pushkina
You are putting the cart before the horse.
The specific charges must first be laid. What crimes SPECIFICALLY do you believe are supported by the evidence you put out.
As I said before, those wishing to prosecute must first lay out the "indictment", that is the bill of charges, with the evidence to support them.
So please, no more evidence until you (plural meaning those wanting to prosecute) lay out the charges, then bring on the evidence. I will then create the bill of indictment, so the Defense team can respond directly.


i have worked as a human rights and war crimes researcher since 1980, for a variety of NGOs, the wiesenthal center, in conjunction with the helsinki commission (OSCE). through the 80-90s, i worked with other NGOs gathering war crimes evidence to proferred against saddam hussein and drafting the documentation (briefs and draft indictments) to be submitted with the evidence.  i've worked collecting and detailing evidence of the rape camps and torture in bosnia. i was part of a team at the wiesenthal center to go back into german and rumanian archival documents to try and identify crimes and perpetrators at the trans-nistrian camps and draft the docs to be submitted to the rumanian prosecutors.  most recently, i was invited back by NGOs concerned with making sure that saddam's crimes committed during the iraq-iran war against iranian civilians are detailed and included in the indictment being prepared against him.

all this to explain that i was trained to go about this process differently: first discover and identify the events to question, break them down (take verbal evidence; research /locate archival evidence) develop all lines and ONLY THEN can one decide specific charges to level and persons to accuse.

therefore, that is why i suggested events; not as an obstructionist means ("cart before the horse"). the head of the prosecution team would/should make note and collect them to include as part of their research.  

however, as you are the FA, i suppose you are entitled to organise this adventure as you see fit. the way you propose makes this a much shorter and less profound exercise.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2004, 09:43:54 PM »
Pushkina would you like to join the Defense team or do you prefer the opposing side?


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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2004, 10:12:59 PM »
Well,
Clearly someone with obviously far more experience in this matter has put me in my place. SO, I will no longer participate nor offer my assistance.

Since Pushkina has demonstrated that SHE is obviously far more competant than I to keep some order to this, SHE is now in charge. Im out of this thread.
Bye.

Offline pushkina

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2004, 10:14:06 PM »
prosecution.  altho' it would be great to work with you B.
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Offline pushkina

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2004, 10:16:54 PM »
Quote
Well,
Clearly someone with obviously far more experience in this matter has put me in my place. SO, I will no longer participate nor offer my assistance.

Since Pushkina has demonstrated that SHE is obviously far more competant than I to keep some order to this, SHE is now in charge. Im out of this thread.
Bye.



sorry if i was misunderstood.

i wasn't arguing competency, just style; i've/i'd never seen it done crime before events.  and when i was told that i was putting cart before horse, i was a bit taken aback, to say the least.

this is an intellectual exercise; no one's lives are at stake anymore.  sorry if i overstated.  i have been known to be pushy, hence the english part of pushkina.

again apologies.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by pushkina »
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #100 on: December 05, 2004, 10:22:15 PM »
My problem is that my specialty was medical negligence law, not criminal law.

Thanks Pushkina for your kind offer to help me, but you must choose one side.

Rob please don't disappear we need your learned opinions. I will certainly require help in criminal matters.  ;)


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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #101 on: December 05, 2004, 10:29:53 PM »
Belochka - I will join you on the defense. I am not an attorney, but I believe nonetheless that I may be able to help in defending Nicholas and Alexandra in this "cyber trial".

Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #102 on: December 05, 2004, 10:42:55 PM »
Thanks Lisa I accept your offer with pleasure.  ;D


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Offline pushkina

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #103 on: December 06, 2004, 03:05:47 AM »
as a contrarian, i'm definitely prosecution, B. i was just being wistful.  

or maybe since i seem to be overenthusiastic, maybe i should refrain.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by pushkina »
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Crimes Against Russia - Nicholas II + Family
« Reply #104 on: December 06, 2004, 03:28:29 AM »
Pushkina please don't otherwise the case will not be able to proceed.

Would you like to start gathering the evidence? Perhaps others would like to participate in this task as well?

We also require nominations for a judge ... anyone interested in this position?

The person must be impartial and fair. Revolutionaries need not apply, your applications will be rejected. ;D


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