Author Topic: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?  (Read 48176 times)

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Lady Nikolaievna

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2010, 02:09:34 PM »
Hmm, Tasia is right, in Brzil we use "Czar". I think it's easier for our pronounciation. ;)

Offline TroubleTwin2

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2010, 05:32:08 PM »
I prefer Romanov to Romanoff, and when I first saw Czar/Tsar in my Global history book it said Czar, however I perfer Tsar for some reason I'm not really sure why.

Offline Tasia

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2010, 08:36:19 AM »
True, AnastasiaNikolaevna!!
Yes, Lady!!
Me too, TT2

Offline AnastasiaNikolaevna

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2010, 03:23:35 PM »
I think the majority is Tsar and Romanov....
You are filled with anguish
For the suffering of others
And no one's grief
Has ever passed you by
You are relentless
Only towards yourself
Forever cold and pitiless
But only if you could look upon
Your Own sadness From a distance
Oh, how you would pity yourself
How sadly you would we

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2010, 09:02:42 PM »
What about Fabergé?

Are you OK with being a sloppy, meek user of Microsoft's McKeyboard and write "Faberge" or do you think that something as extravagant and refined as Fabergé demands that one ought to aspire to higher standards and find out how to write an "é"?

(Personally I think we should write Œufs de Fabergé just to emphasize that they are from an era when the "easiest way out" was not an option.)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 09:25:07 PM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Offline TroubleTwin2

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2010, 09:41:56 PM »
It doesn't really matter to me. If I knew how to put accents over my words I might do it more often, and I might care, but as of righ now doesn' make a difference.

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2010, 05:53:37 AM »
If I knew how to put accents over my words

From Wikipedia:
"Windows users can type an "é" by holding the "Alt" key down and dialing either 130 or 0233 (on the numeric pad of the keyboard): alt + 130; alt + 0233. Windows users can type "É" by holding the "Alt" key down and dialing either 144 or 0201.
On US International and UK English keyboard layouts users can more simply access the acute accent letter 'É' by holding down the "AltGR" key whilst typing the 'E' key on the keyboard. This method can also be applied to many other acute accented letters which do not appear on the standard US English keyboard layout.
In Microsoft Word, a user can press Ctrl + ' (apostrophe), then E for "é".
On Mac OS X a user can hold option and press e to get ´, then press e and they will get é.
In X Window using a compose key, a user can press the compose key followed by ' (apostrophe) and e (in either order) to get é."

For users with Linux-based operative systems (like Ubuntu), the Unicode (applied by holding down Ctrl and Shift and typing the code) for é is U+00E9 and U+00C9 for É.

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2010, 06:52:26 AM »
I just remember of an awful and cheap Vodka named "Romanoff". Once i drank it and i almost died!


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"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Lady Nikolaievna

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2010, 10:16:30 AM »
The bird looks like the Romanov's sign o.O

Offline TroubleTwin2

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2010, 12:31:36 PM »
Weird it does to, I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't of pointed it out.  :)

Offline Carolath Habsburg

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2010, 01:54:48 PM »
Yup, it looks like Romanov coats of arms. Its a cheap and awful australian vodka, the worst thing i ve ever drank!

Courtesy of Grand Duchess Ally

"...Пусть он землю бережет родную, А любовь Катюша сбережет....". Grand Duchess Ekaterina Fyodorovna to Grand Duke Georgiy Alexandrovich. 1914

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Offline TroubleTwin2

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2010, 02:57:37 PM »
Well I've never had it so I'll just have to take your word for it. :)

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2010, 05:04:31 PM »
The heraldic logo is clearly meant to evoke the Arms of the Russian Empire, but the shield with the white R on red is the vodka maker's very own (rather faux heraldic) creation. The Imperial Arms featured the arms of Moscow, St. George slaying the dragon, in this place, as do the arms of the modern Russian Federation.

Greater Imperial Arms:


The "ancestral* Romanov arms" in the strict sense were only the heraldic right (left to us!) half of the lowermost shield, which they share with the arms of Holstein-Gottorp. (The combined Holstein-Gottorp-Romanov arms were of course the proper dynastic arms of the modern dynasty.
* "Ancestral Romanov arms" in quotation marks because I think they first were commissioned by Alexander II, from rather dubious arms attributed to the first Romanovs.)

The dynastic arms of the Romanov family:


Its a cheap and awful australian vodka, the worst thing i ve ever drank!

The producer, Distell, describes it as " Romanoff, a vodka of noble heritage, chosen by consumers who seek outstanding quality and prestige at a very affordable price." LOL!

I don't think I would trust this producer very much. Another vodka of theirs: "Count Pushkin* Premium Vodka is the luxury vodka authentically associated with Russian royalty - the symbol of nobility owned by the people." Nothing in that statement is true at all!

* It does refer to the poet, who never was a count, and not to the Counts Musin-Pushkin, because it further says "Design features include extracts from the poetry of Writer and Nobleman - Count Pushkin himself, in his authentic Russian handwritten scripts."
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 05:14:50 PM by Fyodor Petrovich »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2011, 08:54:26 PM »
The Romanovs / Romanoffs / Romanows have it easy compared to Pushkin.
Consider how Пушкин can be transliterated as:

Pushkin (English)
Pouchkine (French)
Puschkin (German)
Pusjkin (Scandinavian)
Poesjkin (Dutch)
Puxkin (Iberian)
Puškin (West Slavic, Baltic and Finnish)
Puskin (Hungarian)
Pușkin (Romanian)
Puszkin (Polish)
Puşkin (Turkish)
Πούσκιν (Greek)

As you can see nearly all of the languages use digraphs or diacritical marks because the original Greek and Latin alphabets did not have a separate letter for the sound <sh> or [ʃ].
That's why Saints Cyril and Methodius, with their one-letter-for-each-sound approach invented Ш, ш, which can represent both [ʃ] or [ʂ]. The latter is the sh sound in Пушкин, but it doesn't exist in English. It does exist in the retroflex dialects of Eastern Norwegian and Swedish, where the poet's name could be written Purskinn or Porskinn!

If we who are using Latin-derived alphabet should agree on one letter to represent the sound [ʃ] (including [ʂ]), I'd suggest the obsolete x, just like in Iberian languages. And the people would finally pronounce Texas the way it was intended to sound, as Teshas!

« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 08:56:11 PM by Фёдор Петрович »

Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Do you write Romanov or Romanoff?
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2012, 08:31:24 PM »

Some of us "older" members of the forum posting here can corroborate that it has only been in the last forty or fifty years that the general usage in English has gradually shifted from "Czar" and "Romanoff" to (the more correct and preferable) "Tsar" and "Romanov", etc.

Before the Revolution, the accepted form in English was "Romanoff", thus, the present-day Romanoffs abroad have simply retained the form then in use when their grandparents, or great-grandparents, left Russia. The general usage has changed; their family usage has not.

There is another, historical, aspect to this question of the proper spelling of Russian surnames in English, which, I think, you will find interesting.

Once, in an article in a church bulletin, we quoted Matushka Anastasia Schatiloff (née Grabbe), but, in doing so, we transliterated her surname directly from the Russian as "Shatilova".

She wrote to us and kindly asked us to always use the form "Schatiloff" in the future. Then she gave us the following explanation.

As is well known, in the early 1700s, Tsar Peter I sent many of the sons of the nobility to be educated abroad in Western Europe. Often sons of the same family would be sent to different countries. When those sons then returned home to Russia, each one of them would, when writing his surname in Roman letters, spell it in accord with the language of whatever country he had visited. Thus siblings would often have variant spellings of the same surname. For the sake of conformity, and to avoid confusion, Peter I decided upon one spelling for each surname, and he decreed that henceforth only the established form should be used when writing the surname in Roman letters. Usually the established spelling of those surnames reflected a Germanic or North European influence.

So, since her husband's surname had been spelled that way for over 250 years, Matushka asked that we conform to that usage.

This, of course, does not prevent any modern author from adopting a more correct form for Russian surnames, but it is an interesting historical footnote.
инок Николай