Author Topic: WHO WAS THE FIRST LEADER AFTER NICHOLAS II ABDICATED?  (Read 41671 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: WHO WAS THE FIRST LEADER AFTER NICHOLAS II ABDICATED?
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2010, 12:40:59 PM »
I was studying the Russian Revolution and my History teacher said that Prince Lvov ruled with Kerensky before the Bolsheviks took the power...

What is this Lvov relation with the family???
(Is he Nicholas' cousin or something like this??)

Thanks,
Anya

Prince L'vov was a well-regarded member of the Imperial Duma and a Red Cross official prior to becoming the first Prime Minister of the Provisional Government. It's a bit of a stretch to say L'vov "ruled". The Provisional Government was in power less than a year and this first PM in power much less than this. Kerensky was a minister - I believe of Justice - during the time when L'vov was PM. After his fall, Kerensky became Prime Minister.

I know of no familial relationship between Prince L'vov and Nicholas II and no personal relationship either.

Prince Gregory Yevgenevich (1861-1925)
>>Social reformer and statesman.   He was...chairman of the All-Russian Union of Zemstvos. He formed a provisional government at the request of the provisional committee of the state duma  Feb 1917 following Nicholas II's abdication...<<   COMPANION TO RUSSIAN HISTORY  by John Paxton.

However, this does not mean that Lvov was ruling Russia, so I agree with Lisa.

Herein lies the reason.

Although the Duma continued to be present,  earlier Nicholas II had set a decree that the Duma no longer exsisted.  So, from that point forward, the Duma was acting on it's own.  

Nicholas II had given the crown to his brother Michael, therefore,  the uncrown Emp. Michael I was ruler of Russia.

Meanwhile some of the rebellious Duma set up a provisional committee, who  chose Lvov as it's minister to be in charge of setting up a Provisional Govt.

The uncrown Michael I was Emperor and Tsar at this time, and,  was in the position to rule Russia, however,  this would just be a paper rule since Michael I turned to the Provisional minister Lvov and his committee to set up an election.....

No election for the new head of the new government occurred between March to July of 1917, while Lvov and the committee churned out promises of free elections, a constitution, and abolished the secret police.... religious freedoms...

When all this was happening,  The deputies of the Soviet Workers and many of their leaders were preparing for their own little revolutions....

Germany had packed up Lenin with a train load of gold had sent him back to Russia.

Back to the Provisional Govt.,  Alexsnder Fedorovich Kerensky, a "moderate socialist" and a member of the Socialist Revolutionary Pary, was given the post of minister of justice (Feb.) and minister of the navy (May) as a  leader in the war which was still being fought, and, in July replaced Lvov as "Prime Minister".


I suppose to be more accurate,  the uncrown Michael I, who had not abdicated,  was withholding any active power, while waiting for the free elections [which never occured by the way]  under the supervision of the  Provisional Govt. Committee head by Lvov then Kerensky ....

21 Aug,  7 p.m., the Provisional  Govt  and order signed by Borois savinkov, "Director of the War Ministry" read:
>>To the Commander-in-Chief of Petrograd Districh.  Based on the revolution of the Provisional Government an order is given to arrest the former Grand Duke Michael Aleksandrovich as a person whose activities are a thread to the defense of the country...."<<  p. 327 Crawfords  MICHAEL AND NATASHA.

I believe:  This was the "deal breaker"  between  the uncrown Michael I and the Provisional Govt., who had failed to have free elections.

During Red October [o.s.]/ Red November [n.s.],the Bolsheviks seized power and established the Soviets under Lenin....

AGRBear

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Alixz

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Re: WHO WAS THE FIRST LEADER AFTER NICHOLAS II ABDICATED?
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2010, 01:51:04 PM »
Bear,

Do you mean the "uncrowned emperor" Michael II?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: WHO WAS THE FIRST LEADER AFTER NICHOLAS II ABDICATED?
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2010, 05:00:18 PM »
There were no Emperor Michaels of Russia, only Tsar Michaels [I, II and III] before  Peter I "the great" declared himself Emp. in 1721, and, those that followed took up the crown of Emperor or Empress, therefore,  the brother of Nicholas II became  uncrown Emperor Michael I and Tsar Michael IV.  They are two separate titles. 

Historians often times choose to use Tsar instead of Emperor even though Emperor is the highest rank.  And, for some reason,  the Russians add "I" to the title for Paul I and the "uncrown" Michael I.

AGRBear

List of Emperors of Russia
Emperor Peter I - 1721
Empress Catharina I - 1725
Emperor Peter II - 1727
Empress Anne - 1730
Emperor Ivan - 1740
Empress Elisabeth - 1741
Emperor Peter III - 1762
Empress Catharine II - 1762
Emperor Paul I - 1796
Emperor Alexander I - 1801
Emperor Nicholas I - 1825
Emperor Alexander II - 1855
Emperor Alexander III-1881
Emperor Nicholas II - 1894
"uncrown" Michael I - 1917







"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: WHO WAS THE FIRST LEADER AFTER NICHOLAS II ABDICATED?
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2010, 05:21:40 PM »
After 1721 Tsar was a colloquialism, not an official title. There was no Tsar Michael IV in conjunction with any other title or otherwise.
 The I behind Paul's name is a presumption that there would be others  eventually.
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: WHO WAS THE FIRST LEADER AFTER NICHOLAS II ABDICATED?
« Reply #49 on: October 09, 2010, 12:42:41 PM »
After 1721 Tsar was a colloquialism, not an official title. There was no Tsar Michael IV in conjunction with any other title or otherwise.
 The I behind Paul's name is a presumption that there would be others  eventually.

Both Emperors Nikolai II and Aleksander III used the same full titles. Other emperors and empresses had various additions and subtractions to their list of territories.

Tania has posted a very good list of the full titles of Emperor Nikolai II, but I do see a few things that need to be adjusted, it could be that she simply omitted a word when typing the list, or transposed a word as I have done this when I have typed out the full titles. My changes and additions will be in bold type.

Emperor and Autocrat of all the Russias, Moscow, Kiev, Vladimir, Novgorod, Tsar of Kazan, Tsar of Astrakhan, Tsar of Poland, Tsar of Siberia, Tsar of Touric-Cherson, Tsar of Georgia, Lord of Pskov, Grand Duke of Smolensk, of Lithuania, Volhynia, Podolia and Finland, Prince of Estland, Livland, Courland and Semigalia, Somogotia, Bialstock, Karelia, Tver, Yougouria, Perm, Viatka, Bulgaria, and other countries; Lord and Grand Duke of Lower Novgorod, of Chernigov, Riazan, Polotsk, Rostov, Yaroslav, Belozero, Oudoria, Obduria, Condia, Vitebsk, Mstislav and all the region of the North, Lord and Sovereign of the countries of Iveria, Kartali, Kabardinia, and the provinces of Armenia, Sovereign of the Circassian Princes and the Mountain Princes, Lord of Turkestan, Heir of Norway, Duke of Schleswig Holstein, of Stormarn, of the Ditmarschen and of Oldenbourg, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.


1. No Tsar of Moscow, Kiev, Vladimir, Novgorod but rather Emperor and Autocrat of these four cities.

2. The word Tsar is repeated in front of the names of each of the territories of Kazan, Astrakhan, Poland, Siberia, Touric-Cherson, Georgia.

3. The Russians use the words Estland and Livland in the titles. Estland has not always been equal to Estonia but rather what is today Northern Estonia. Livonia includes Southern Estonia and Northern and Eastern Latvia, Livland is a smaller territory.

4. I really prefer the word Kartali to the word Cartalinia. This is the Principality that the Princes Bagration-Moukhransky once ruled.

5. The names of these German duchies are spelled Stormarn and Ditmarschen.

6. The titles of Princes, Kings and Emperors are usually ended in et cetera (always three times) or ec. (no 't', always three times). The Russians end the Imperial titles with [ch1080] [ch1087][ch1088][ch1086][ch1095][ch1072][ch1103], [ch1080] [ch1087][ch1088][ch1086][ch1095][ch1072][ch1103], [ch1080] [ch1087][ch1088][ch1086][ch1095][ch1072][ch1103]. Meaning et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.


David Pritchard



The title of Nicholas II does use "Tsar".

According to David and Robert,  the  title of Tsar  Michael IV of Moscow, etc. etc. etc.  would not have been used, however, he could have used the word "Tsar" as did Nicholas II.

 I stand corrected.

AGRBear

« Last Edit: October 09, 2010, 12:51:56 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152