Facebook claimant...

[LisaDavidson]

I really doubt that. I've never run across anyone claiming to be a Yurievsky! And, there are plenty enough living descendants of these morganatic descendants of Alexander II to quickly disprove any "claimants". An illegitimate offspring of a morganaut would have nothing to claim.

[Belochka]

I was actually speaking in general terms Lisa, as I believe you might have been, after you used the broad term: "For example".

[I-TsarevichAlexei13]

I think, that Lisa is right, no offense to anyone on this forum or this section of AP forum, but words can really hurt and "treat others they way you would want to be treated" is a great example. You should treat everyone as an equal and not broadside or ridicule them just because they claim they are a Romanov, or someone else important in the Romanov line. It isn't polite to make rude remarks, and joke about them when they could very well be reading this forum, and what you say. Honestly I think some people on this forum need manners. Its not at all fair to ridicule a person like the way i have seen on this forum. Claimants. Reincarnation believers. They all have a right to what they want to believe in. And This forum, and forum actually is a place for support and understanding, not butchering and ridicule.

I wonder, how you would feel, if you told someone on this forum something special, or secret.. or something you just found out about the Romanov's, or royal families, in general.. and they just pushed you aside, and made rude remarks about you? I know I wouldn't like it. I think we should all love each other, be equal to one another. And live in peace. Telling someone that they are crazy or nuts... is not a nice or polite way to help someone... infact its the complete opposite. It's just my opinion.. seriously

people... get some manners... and be nice for a change.

God Bless You all and ur families 

~Shawn (I-TsarevichAlexei13)

[charley]

I think that some people have the name Romanov or Romanoff or another Royal name and they may instantly think that there must be a connection to the Imperial Family.  You all have to understand that a great grandmother may have told a story in her family about living in Russia and that her mother told her this story of how they were related to the IF.  This story gets past down from one generation to the next and was never verified by the family because there was not modern technology available. The story is past down to the present day and people share that story. You have to look at it with a different perspective.  Most people have heard stories such as these in there own family. You know, my great, great grandfather was a Civil War hero, etc.  People on this site live and breath every aspect of the Romanov's, but out in the world, very few people know much about them or only what they learned briefly in history class.  Maybe it is not as much of a big deal to them as it is to others. They might just have heard rumors and want to get to the bottom of it. It would be like someone telling us they were related to the King of Tonga. No one really knows about this royal house so they could tell there story and maybe we would believe it. Of course history said that the Czar and his family died in 1918, but if your great, great, grandmother from Russia said you were related, than maybe you would believe that.  I am sure there are some players out there, but some of these people have been told from generation to generation about these stories and they shouldn't be bullied.  What should be done is the people on this website who are "experts", should explain and try to help these people.  There were surviving Romanov's after the revolution.  How many are around today?  Did any of them have illegitimate children? I am sure this is posted somewhere else, so maybe you can direct these people there.  I know some of you are scared to be suckers, but I do not think all these people are trying to play you. I think some of them genuinely believe there is a connection.

[I-TsarevichAlexei13]

Charley, I agree with you very much. There are a lot of people on this forum sight that will willingly help people out, with these questions, and answers they want asked, or helped out with. I was just pointing to the fact we also have rude people.. who just make crude unrelenting jokes about someone, or people, because they believe they are related to the Romanov's. But what you said.. is very noble

Good words

~Shawn

[charley]

I am not saying I believe the claimants, I know the Romanov's pretty well. Most of these nonfriendly people have been here for a long time and discussed everything again and again. The newness of it all has worn off and they are tired of talking about the Romanov's, so they have to revert to other means to entertain themselves. I think they are just bored. I would like to see them use their free time in a more constructive manner, maybe by researching and adding something new to this site that may stimulate some exciting posts.  Then we can discuss it like civilized adults, although I guess there are some adolescence here as well. I have been around for awhile and sometimes I become to busy to visit the site, but for me, returning is like coming here for the first time with all the excitement of being on an adventure.

[Margot]

Charley I think you have made a case in a rather beautiful manner! Thank you!

As to helping those who may be seeking to clarify family legends about being related to Romanovs! The simplest thing to do is approach the Romanov Family Association in the first instance! I mean we are just a forum! We discuss and ponder but we are not a proper genealogical research service!

If any one is really serious about trying to discover the truth about family legends they would really be better served employing the services of reputable qualified genealogists, especially when it comes to the nightmare logistics of trying to get anything out of the Russian registrars! To be honest with you trying to clarify anything about Russian ancestors whether they be nobles ot peasants is very difficult and a challenge! Believe me my family spent years  trying for years to get information! And we are not even Romanovs! It is generally like talking to a brick wall! You really do need the help of professionals!

Saying that, I do find the whole issue of Romanov claimants rather extraordinary! Why are there so many, when there aren't any emerging with anything similar to the same number, in other exiled dynasties? I believe the RFA is aware of all known descendants today! The only descendants not known about would be illegitimate surely? One doesn't hear about mysterious previously unknown Habsburgs or Hohenzollerns or even Braganzas these days! Or at least not that often! I would be fascinated to see some trend stats of claimants from 1998 through to the present and see how they differ in results to claimant stats prior to the results of the DNA test findings of 1998 and 2007! Will there be a noticeable spike in claimants believing themselves descended from other members of the family now and a sharp decline and fall off in claims of descent from OTMAA?

You can hardly blame some for being skeptical of this whole issue! I really do ponder what it is or was that fueled and still fuels these legends! From personal experience I may add, that my great grandparents were imprisoned during the Revolution as members of a very well known White Russian Family and that after a great deal of cloak and dagger antics including false passports etc they managed to escape and start a new life in the West! Apparently when a cousin was in Russia in the 90s and went digging at the public records office, as soon as the staff saw the family name, the administrator became very unhelpful and demanded all manner of written proof that said cousin was a legitimate descendent! It took years to find an elusive scrap of paper which miraculously had survived in the back of someone's desk!

It says a lot when the Russian authorities themselves were being so obtuse about access! They were probably wary of descendants (legitimate, illegitimate and spurious!) seeking restitution at the time! Anyway, the same attitudes prevail today and are unfortunately one constant when it comes to claims relating especially to the Imperial Family!

I really would be so interested to see those stats 1998 through to present as I bet they would be very revealing and telling about trends!!

[I-TsarevichAlexei13]

very interesting Margot. I would too. Hopefully everyone can help someone in a way. Great first thought about the Romanov Family Association.

I love this forum, just sometimes people can say really mean things....
Its so full of life and mystery, just like the Romanov Family

~God Bless

~Shawn

[charley]

I would be fascinated to see some trend stats of claimants from 1998 through to the present and see how they differ in results to claimant stats prior to the results of the DNA test findings of 1998 and 2007! Will there be a noticeable spike in claimants believing themselves descended from other members of the family now and a sharp decline and fall off in claims of descent from OTMAA?
I really would be so interested to see those stats 1998 through to present as I bet they would be very revealing and telling about trends!!

I agree there would be a decline, however last night I uncovered something that I thought to be quite strange. I read that the Office of the RF General Procurator who was in charge of the criminal investigation of the murder of the IF stated that as of January 15, 2009 the case would be officially closed.  They felt comfortable closing the case with the DNA tests and other findings. Here is the interesting thing, the lead investigator then said, " If some unexpected contingency occurs, for example, someone comes forward with new evidence that completely refutes the thesis that these remains are those of the Romanov family, the investigation will continue. Of course a contingency is a an event that may occur but that is not likely. The case was apparently closed and reopened after they found the most recent remains, which makes sense. This statement seems to say that they will reopen the case if someone comes forward with new evidence. My question would be, what evidence would reopen the case?

[Margot]

Charley your query about the protocol into the investigation of the murder of the Imperial Family and the contingencies it has set out would be better placed on a pertinent thread! This is after all just a thread purely about Facebook claimants!

If you wish to discuss the issues you have raised I think you had better transpose your query to a more appropriate thread where a discussion may follow!

Perhaps here:-

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=14686.msg427761#msg427761

The above thread is one of the current active ones pertaining to just such issues! Although I do not think Prince George or his mother have 'new evidence that completely refutes the thesis..'

[charley]

Charley your query about the protocol into the investigation of the murder of the Imperial Family and the contingencies it has set out would be better placed on a pertinent thread! This is after all just a thread purely about Facebook claimants!
The above thread is one of the current active ones pertaining to just such issues! Although I do not think Prince George or his mother have 'new evidence that completely refutes the thesis..'

I understand what you are saying, but I think this story is related to this subject. If one of these claimants were real, they should have some kind of proof, something that they could bring forward as evidence and if it appears to be legitimate they would reopen the case. Obviously oral family tradition is not even considered. I am not making any judgements here, just commenting on what I read.

When I think about these claimants, what comes to my mind is that if the Tsar had a plan to get he and his family out of the situation, he took time to form an elaborate plan, wouldn't he have given his children something to pass down that would be proof.  Sure initially they would have had to be in hiding, but the Tsar of Russia was not an idiot.  He would have done something, put some file somewhere, confided in a neutral country or something that could be brought out later so that his descendants could step forward and prove they were a direct descendant.  DNA did not exist at that time so it would have had to have been something else.  So far no one has produced this "something else". I think that if they had survived, it would not have been that it was accidental (i.e. a soldier with a heart let them go, or they escaped into the woods after they were shot, but the soldiers missed, type scenario.)

[susana]

I really wish all on here would be considerate to any claimants--every person has a story and deserves to be heard respectfully. I do think about claims that George Alexandrovitch had children while at Abbas Tuman; we know Nicholas Konstantinovitch had children by local women after being banished; I've always wondered if George Brassov before dying at age 21 had already engaged in sexual relations--what if? And here tonight I hear that just maybe George Yurievsky had issue. There are stranger things in the world but at any rate I think I would be polite.

[Robert_Hall]

AS long as they stay on Facebook, fine.   Just do not clutter up the Forum with this  stuff.