Theories About the Survial of the Imperial Family ... What if?

[AGRBear]

Thank you Abby for the URLs.

Back to my inquiry about Alexei:

Am I mistaken when most have claimed Alexei couldn't walk and this is why Nicholas II carried him?  Could Alexei walk?  Had he recovered by this time?   [Note: By recovery,  I assume this doesn't mean he was able to run and jump.]

AGRBear

AGRBear
PS  An excellent reply by Provoslavnaya over on the following thread:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=alexei;action=display;num=1102886085;start=75#87

[KayTanaka]

Dear Dandywell,

What an excellent response. Ditto. All Best, Kay.

[Alice]

I am not a fan of any claimants.  [Thought I needed to makes this fact VERY clear.]

Since Candice has mentioned the possibility that GD Alexei may not have had hemophilia/haemophilia,  I pulled out my recently purchased book THE ESCAPE OF ALEXEI, SON OF TSAR NCHOLAS II by Petrov, Lysenho and Egorov on the claimant Vasily Filatov.  On p.  124 there is a discussion about Filatov's blood disorder called "hemiparesis" when compared to hemophilia.

According to Alice and others,  they are absolutely positive that GD Alexei did not have "hemiparesis" and did have hemophilia/haemophilia.

For those of you newbies,  this is what is being discussed, I think.

There is more about Filatov over in the claimant thread.

Can someone give us the thread where the differences between "hemiparesis" and hemophilia was discussed some months ago in this forum?

Again,  I have no information and will let the experts work out this answer, unless, they have already.  Have they?  Source please.

AGRBear

Hemiparesis:

Hemiplegia is total paralysis of the arm, leg, and trunk on the same side of the body, whereas hemiparesis is weakness on one side of the body.  The most common cause is stroke.

http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/gait/hemiplegic/intro.asp

As far as I am aware, there is no documented evidence that Alexei ever suffered a stroke. If there is evidence of this, then could someone please share it. Hemiplegia would also not explain the bleeding, just the weakness.

[Candice]

AGRbear, thank you for your reply.

Candice

[Michelle]

Hemiparesis:


http://sprojects.mmi.mcgill.ca/gait/hemiplegic/intro.asp

As far as I am aware, there is no documented evidence that Alexei ever suffered a stroke. If there is evidence of this, then could someone please share it. Hemiplegia would also not explain the bleeding, just the weakness.

Alice--

AGRBear wasn't talking about hemoplegia but hemiparesis.  Are these two conditions not different?  In other words, are hemoplegia and hemiparesis the same thing?

Also, Alexei's doctors didn't know of any other blood disorder at the time other than hemophilia. So yes, they would naturally diagnose Alexei with hemophilia once they saw/heard he had a blood disorder, when in fact, he very well could've had a different condition.  So we can't really go by what doctors who had no knowledge of all the blood disorders out there said one hundred years ago.  They're views are totally obsolete.  They automatically assumed Alexei had hemophilia since they only knew of that one disorder.

[patrick_delaney]

I have posted this on another thread but felt it also belonged here since you are discussing Reilly and potential rescues:  

One must beware of "reliable sources" who state that any historical event or source is without merit.  Researching historical events is an ever-evolving endeavor.  In my opinion, one can not entertain the thought that the final chapter has been written on any subject.

As to the challenges lodged by a "reliable source" regarding Rescuing the Czar.  This source pops up anytime a discussion of Rescuing the Czar appears.  Statements like - "my father-in-law printed the book' etc. and "it is only fiction..." etc. are shameless assertions that ultimately must be viewed as emotional outbursts unsupported by the weight of primary documentation as to the book's validity either way - fact or fiction.  Can anyone profess that every family member always acts in a transparent fashion when speaking of their actions involving third parties?   I think not especially decades later.

In other words - accepting this "reliable source" as the ultimate authority on this book would be tantamount to acceptance of a very lazy historical analysis.  I sincerely hope all of you will be careful and weigh this work on the facts as best we know them at the present.  By the way, as many of you may already know, the entire text is now on line as part of the Gutenberg Project.

[Alice]

Alice--

AGRBear wasn't talking about hemoplegia but hemiparesis.  Are these two conditions not different?  In other words, are hemoplegia and hemiparesis the same thing?

Also, Alexei's doctors didn't know of any other blood disorder at the time other than hemophilia. So yes, they would naturally diagnose Alexei with hemophilia once they saw/heard he had a blood disorder, when in fact, he very well could've had a different condition.  So we can't really go by what doctors who had no knowledge of all the blood disorders out there said one hundred years ago.  They're views are totally obsolete.  They automatically assumed Alexei had hemophilia since they only knew of that one disorder.

Hi Michelle,

From what I read on that website (which I've quoted in my previous post as the source) the two conditions are similar, and the most common cause of both is a stroke.

But again, Hemiparesis or Hemiplegia would not explain the bleeding.

[rskkiya]

I have posted this on another thread but felt it also belonged here since you are discussing Reilly and potential rescues:  
 
In other words - accepting this "reliable source" as the ultimate authority on this book would be tantamount to acceptance of a very lazy historical analysis.  I sincerely hope all of you will be careful and weigh this work on the facts as best we know them at the present.  By the way, as many of you may already know, the entire text is now on line as part of the Gutenberg Project.

well put...

rskkiya

[AGRBear]

Discussion about the Rescuing the Czar is on the following URL:

http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Books;action=display;num=1089365164;start=

The lives of the people invovled in  publishing "Rescuing the Czar" are just as interesting  and often times just as confusing as the reason behind writing the story.

AGRBear

[patrick_delaney]

well put...

rskkiya

Well put indeed.  That sort of "source" is hard to stomach.  

Patrick

[AGRBear]

Setting aside Rescuing of the Czar, let me quote Greg King:

.... [ in part]....

...with or without the case of Anastasia Manahan, there's clear evidence that Anastasia left the murder room alive that night and had to be beaten into silence by a drunken Ermakov.  Whether this killed her or she then went on to disappear/escape remains the unknown factor.

Greg King

Even after all the evidence King and Wilson have sifted through,  King can still think:  ".....there's clear evidence that Anastasia left the murder room alive that night...."

I am begining to think:  The murder was staged and  all of them left alive that night.

Since nine of the eleven were found in the grave in Pig's Meadow, then, it's obvious,  nine  were hunted down that same night, the next day, the following month.... or, even, a year later.

The nine were executed or died of their wounds before execution after 16/ 17 July 1918 in the Impatiev House ....

The nine were buried at the same time or added one or more at a time later to the common grave.

Too many bones are missing which, to me, shows this was not where all of them were buried here first...

Two children of Nicholas II are missing.

AGRBear

[Annie]

Why would the murder be staged? Remember, they did not want it to be known that they killed the entire family and the intial reports claimed it was only the Tsar. Also don't forget that after they killed them they found out that part of the deal with the Germans was that 'the princesses of German blood' (Alix and OTMA) be delivered safely, so they had to deny it. My point here is, when they lied, they lied about them being ALIVE, not dead! WHY would they fake them being dead It makes no sense at all when all historical evidence leads to the conclusion that they were dead and that fact was being covered up. If they had been alive they would have not had to do that!!!!

[Merrique]

Why would the murder be staged? Remember, they did not want it to be known that they killed the entire family and the intial reports claimed it was only the Tsar. Also don't forget that after they killed them they found out that part of the deal with the Germans was that 'the princesses of German blood' (Alix and OTMA) be delivered safely, so they had to deny it. My point here is, when they lied, they lied about them being ALIVE, not dead! WHY would they fake them being dead It makes no sense at all when all historical evidence leads to the conclusion that they were dead and that fact was being covered up. If they had been alive they would have not had to do that!!!!

Well said and I agree Annie.

[rskkiya]

I am begining to think:  The murder was staged and  all of them left alive that night.

Since nine of the eleven were found in the grave in Pig's Meadow, then, it's obvious,  nine  were hunted down that same night, the next day, the following month.... or, even, a year later.

The nine were executed or died of their wounds before execution after 16/ 17 July 1918 in the Impatiev House ....

The nine were buried at the same time or added one or more at a time later to the common grave.

Too many bones are missing which, to me, shows this was not where all of them were buried here first...

Two children of Nicholas II are missing.

AGRBear

WHAT?
What is your reasoning behind this rather silly theory? The execution was staged -- for what purpose?  Where do you suppose the I.F. then wandered off to?  
Meandering in the woods? Hunting mushrooms? Where were they supposed to have gone?  "Hunted down"?
Come on Agrbear!

rskkiya
{A close friend of mine has been told that she has inoperable pancriatic cancer so I'll not be at this site for a while...This "theory" of yours will help to make me laugh (or at least smirk!) durring the sad days to come...} rskkiya

[AGRBear]

... numbers added by AGRBear:
(1) Why would the murder be staged? Remember, they did not want it to be known that they killed the entire family and the intial reports claimed it was only the Tsar.
(2) Also don't forget that after they killed them they found out that part of the deal with the Germans was that 'the princesses of German blood' (Alix and OTMA) be delivered safely, so they had to deny it.
(3) My point here is, when they lied, they lied about them being ALIVE, not dead! WHY would they fake them being dead
(3) It makes no sense at all when all historical evidence leads to the conclusion that they were dead and that fact was being covered up. If they had been alive they would have not had to do that!!!!

----
(1)  Why would the murders be staged?  To cover-up a rescue.
(2)  The gun trade for the lives of Alexandra and the children was between Trotsky, Radek and those who were dealing.  I doubt the Soviet Urals were in on this transaction.
(3)  No one in Ekaterinburg or Moscow wanted the world to know that nine of the eleven were executed twice.  The first time on paper and the second time for real.
AND
No one in Ekaterinburg or Moscow wanted the world to know that two of the eleven were still missing.

AGRBear

PS:  Merrique,  I noticed  your new symbol.    Gives me a chuckle.

PSS Rskkiya posted about the same time I did, so,  I've just read her post.  So sorry to hear about your friend.  Take care.  Remember "hugs" go a long way and I'm sending one to you and one to your friend.