Empress Elisabeth, Part I

[britt.25]

Maybe not a nice question...but has anyone got a good picture of the murder scene of Elisabeth at Geneva ?

I haven't been there, but I have read there is also a monument or sign reminding on her death. I read as well that she simply went on after being attacked and then broke together some time later, was taken back to the hotel "Beau Rivage", where she died then. Tragic! There is something strange about it, as there was just 20th anniversary of a german politician's death, who was found dead in the same hotel after a scandal, murder is more and more speculated as well, even when the official reason of death was suicide (I do not believe so)

Has anyone a picture of Elisabeths death or does anyone have a photo of the sign of memorial?

[Greenowl]

Gosh Britt, that is an odd coincidence! I never realised that Uwe Barschel's death (suicide or murder??) took place in the Hotel Beau Rivage, although I was aware that he died in Geneva. It would sort of put me off staying in that hotel!!

With regard to the pictures that Yseult so kindly posted: I think the last one that appears to show Empress Elisabeth on her death-bed is not real. I heard somewhere that it actually originates from a film or something...I'm not sure of the details, but perhaps somebody else knows and could explain? To the best of my knowledge (and as always I stand open to correction on this), there were no photos taken of Elisabeth after her death. I do however, have a photo of Elisabeth's coffin being carried out of the Hotel Beau Rivage and placed in a hearse for the first stage of its journey back to Vienna. However, I have no scanner so am unable to post it here....sorry!

[Cambria_Coheed]

hmmm....Perhaps you may be right Greenowl....whenever i see that picture of Sisi on her deathbed i always think that it doesnst look like her.....it may be though, because i thought that sisi stopped having pictures taken of her after she got older. so we dont really have to many pics of her when she was younger as there were when she was younger.

[britt.25]

Hi Greenowl,

Even if off topic, yes, I ment him. For my part I think facts rather speak for the contrary than for suicide, there is something deeply wrong at that case. That is my opinion, even I was a child, when it happened, but that death picture in TV never left me. Yes, he was found dead in room 317 in the hotel, in the bath tub, but with clothes on, watch and everything, it was clearly an impoisoning. And I think Sisi also died inside the hotel, or am I wrong? I think, she was attacked outside and taken back to the hotel(room? Which one?), where she died. But I am no expert, so please correct me...I just wondered, if anyone has a picture of the murder happening? I seem to remember that drawings of the scene exist.

Yseult,

Thanks for the family pictures! They are just wonderful. I think, there were some doubts on the identity of the picture of Gödöllö, some thought the little girl might be the first born Sophie, but in all books that I ever saw it was clearly said that this is Marie Valerie, whereas the older girl is Gisela, and surely the boy Rodolph.
And about the death picture: It really looks like from a movie. From which time and which film is it?
A pity that you cannot send the pic you have, Greenowl...Generally I think it's good that there do no murder photos exist, it has something barbaric, if reporters firstly run to klick klick klick dead people, death is a private thing, so my opinion.

[Greenowl]

Yes, the Barschel case is really odd. I think the state Prosecutor described it as "a murder made to look like a suicide or a suicide made to look like a murder", which seems very apt. I wonder will we ever learn the truth about what really happened? You are correct about Empress Elisabeth. She collapsed on the ferry, which then changed its course and returned to Geneva. The unconscious Empress was carried back to the hotel and placed on the bed in the room she had left just a short time earlier. Two doctors and a nurse who had been attending to one of the other guests volunteered their services, but could do nothing. A priest was sent for and performed the last rites of the Catholic Church, without Elisabeth regaining consciousness. She died at 2.40 PM (14h40), exactly an hour after she had walked on to the ferry with the wound in her heart. I have no idea what her room number was at the Beau Rivage.....it would be an odd coincidence if it was 317!!!! I think I was in the Hotel Beau Rivage myself on one occasion when I was very young (which would have been about nine years before the Barschel incident). I remember accompanying someone to Geneva to view antiques (Russian silver if I remember correctly) prior to the auction, and they were displayed in a hotel at the lake, which I think was the Beau Rivage. However, it is so long ago that my memory may be failing me and I have little recollection of the hotel.

Hopefully somebody will be able to identify the origin of the "death picture", as I am almost sure that I read somewhere (maybe even on this forum??) that it was a still from a film. Britt, I agree with you about death being a private matter and I, too, am glad that there are no murder photos, although there are, of course, a host of "artist's impressions" (i.e. drawings) of the tragic event.

While we are on the subject of art: how is your work coming along? Have you done any new paintings or drawings recently?

[Yseult]

Greenowl, Cambria and Britt...I have read your post. Really I can´t identify the origin of the "death picture". I found it in a website as a picture of empress Elisabeth dead with her last hungarian lady-in-waiting, countess Szataray. I supposed the picture was "a real one", not an image captured from a movie...

[Cambria_Coheed]

i always thought so too,
I saw that image in a book once 

[Greenowl]

Yseult, the picture is often included in books and believed to be a real one. I actually have it open in front of me now, in a book entitled "Sissi, vie et destin d'Elisabeth d'Autriche" by Raymond Chevrier (published in 1987, ISBN 2-8307-0050-3). That was why I was so fascinated when I read somewhere (I wish I could remember where) that it was not real. Of course having said that, what I read could be incorrect!! In the larger version of the photo in the above-mentioned book there is a nurse standing at the foot of the bed. I have looked at the photo/picture credits in said book, and as far as I can make out, that particular photo is credited to "Roger-Viollet" (which means nothing to me). Does anyone have a photo of the Elisabeth's lady-in-waiting, Countess Szataray? It would be interesting to compare the real Countess to the lady in the photo.

[Greenowl]

This is what I found out about "Roger-Viollet" from their own home page on the Internet:

In 1938, Hélène Roger-Viollet and her husband, Jean Fischer, established “la Documentation Photographique Générale Roger-Viollet”, in a small store located 6 rue de Seine in Paris.
The original collections included the Léopold Mercier and Laurent Ollivier archives (acquired with the premises) as well as the life-work of two passionate amateur photographers, Henri and Ernest Roger, Hélène’s father and uncle.
Over the years, the agency acquired various collections composing a fabulous historical testimony: world events and small crafts, fine arts, science, politics and everyday life, exotic journeys and streets of Paris, portraits of celebrities as well as snapshots of unknown passers-by…
The collections also document over a century of photographic history : from the works of Ferrier-Soulier (French Second Empire’s fine arts), Neurdein & Lévy (historical and geographical reports - 1880 to 1918), Maurice-Louis Branger ( war and everyday life reports – 1900-1930), Pierre Choumoff (Russian immigration in Paris in the 20s and 30s), Jacques Boyer (political and scientific life), Albert Harlingue (French and Parisian life, 1910-1950) or Laure Albin-Guillot (fashion and advertising 1920-1960), to the portraits from the Boris Lipnitzki studio (performing arts from the 20s to the 70s)...
Now a reference historical archive in Europe, Roger-Viollet distributes a collection of over 8 million photographs and represents some of the major International photographic heritage agencies in France, whilst providing images to the press and publishing industry as well as the multi-media, television, cinema and advertising sectors.

However, it does not solve the mystery of the origin of the photo of the dead Empress!

[Princess Susan]

Here is photo of countess Sztaray: http://cisarovna-sisi.wz.cz/o_irma.html
But unfortunately not very clear :-(.
I've heared about photo of death Elisabeth, that is from movie as well. Before I had thought, that is normal real picture, because I sow it in a book or on webside among real photos of Sisi. I wonder witch movie it could be. Does anybody know?
Empress also didn't have open coffin during her funeral. I don't know who of her surroundings (perhaps one of her ladys in waiting) sow her as a death, but her features was quite changed.
I doubt, that any of her post mortem pictures are available. I think, they have never been taken.
Although pictures like that weren't so unusuall in 19. or early 20. century. You can find lot of post mortem pictures also between royals in that time. Personally, I don't like this kind of photos. It seems me a bit odd.

[Cambria_Coheed]

yes they are really morbid looking.....normal people used to have post mortem pictures of them as well....it always seemed very morbid to me...i heard there used to be a superstition about that but i dont remember what it was....ill ask my Great Grandma

[britt.25]

yes they are really morbid looking.....normal people used to have post mortem pictures of them as well....it always seemed very morbid to me...i heard there used to be a superstition about that but i dont remember what it was....ill ask my Great Grandma

The best source for post- mortem pictures is the Paul Frecker collection on the net. Very easy to find. the pictures were always very moving to me. It's a strange custom that the people used to sell post mortem CDVs at that time. But I haven't ever seen such a picture of ELisabeth, and I think it's better so...

[britt.25]

But I can`t look at them very often. It's a strange feelings to see all the dead people, especially children.

[Alix of Wales had Panache]

Drawing representing the young Empress :

I love this drawing *points up* !!!  Have seen the actual photo; it's awful.  Below is one of my favorite Elisabeth photos.  It somewhat captures her free spirited nature.  Excuse me if someone else has already posted this and if it's too big.

[Cambria_Coheed]

ohhh i never seen that one before!
thanks Alix of Wales!