Author Topic: "Grabbing at Straws"  (Read 96865 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2004, 03:50:41 PM »
I think Admin. Forum meant his reply to be over on this thread and it was:

Quote
More problems:
There are no reports of any missing "guards" at the time. In fact, most of them seem to be accounted for. It seems rather strange that no one seemed to notice a dozen GUARDS missing, but so many people all knew the IF was missing, no??


There were five Letts executed and left by the Four Brother's Mine.  Penny Wilson and I discussed this fact on another thread some time ago.

 At the moment I don't recall what books I've seen this information nor do I recall the thread where it was discussed and where I did quote one of the sources.  I'll get back to you on this with the sources when I find them.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Dandywell

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2004, 04:11:23 PM »
So you think the family did escape, only to be captured again, killed, and buried in Pigs Meadow. The bodies at the Four Mines were some guards who Yurovsky had used to make it looked like he had killed the Romanovs, when, in fact, they had escaped. Did I get it right? So you think they are dead, but not the way we think they died. Right?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2004, 04:14:06 PM »
This is "speculation" only.

And,  it appears you have understood what I was trying to say and that's good.  

Thanks.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Dandywell

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2004, 04:19:06 PM »
Okay. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't confused. :) But, was the komedant originally going to kill the family? And if he was, why was he drunk? And why did he kill them if he wasn't going to? Were there orders? Just trying to make sure yor theory isn't faulty.

rskkiya

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2004, 07:07:59 PM »
What is the point of even mentioning the "supposed deaths" of the "Latvian guards? Why would the magical "german forces" even make such a production of  "killing" them? Now we have even more "magical bodies" to account for!?
  What sort of bait and switch is this?
  Stop teasing and just make your case clear!

Agrbear -- I am utterly disappointed and rather discussed with all this nonesense! >:(

rskkiya

Dandywell

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2004, 10:59:35 PM »
I'm sorry, but that is quite funny! ;D^^^

Annie

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2004, 09:53:19 AM »
I really don't see any reason for the story they were killed the next day and brought back to the same spot. It doesn't make any sense, and honestly, even if it were true it would not be interesting or earth shaking.It's boring and I don't believe it anyway. Oh well.

Offline Merrique

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2004, 11:02:37 AM »
All of this sounds like utter nonsense to me.Why don't you just spill your story of what Herr XXXX told you when you were 5 Agrbear.Or is this gameplaying fun for you?I know I for one am sick of it.If you have some valid information to share then by all means share it.Otherwise enough is enough already.
Don't knock on Death's door....ring the doorbell and run. He hates that.:D

Offline AGRBear

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2004, 11:32:14 PM »
Quote
What is the point of even mentioning the "supposed deaths" of the "Latvian guards? Why would the magical "german forces" even make such a production of  "killing" them? Now we have even more "magical bodies" to account for!?
 Â  What sort of bait and switch is this?
 Â  Stop teasing and just make your case clear!

Agrbear -- I am utterly disappointed and rather discussed with all this nonesense! >:(

rskkiya


....Rskkyia: The "magical 'German forces'" ?

Answer:   It seems Rskkiya has forgotten what she's read on other threads about the Germans rescuing Romanovs.  Since she's forgotten,  let me freshen her memory.  The Germans made a habit of rescuing the Romanovs even when they didn't like being rescued by the Germans.  

Facts: It was around the 4th of July 1918 that the Germans told high White Army generals that around the 16th of July there would be news coming out of the Urals that Nicholas II was executed.  However,  the news about Nicholas II's execution, the Germans said,  would not be true....
---
Rskkyia:...."magical bodies"?

Answer:   It seems Rskkiya has forgotten this conversation about the five bodies found by the White investigators by the Four Brother's Mine.  
----
....Rskkyia:" Why would the magical "german forces" even make such a production of  "killing" them?"  

Answer:  Who did the "German forces" kill?  I had mentioned that the Germans suggested the knowledge of a rescue plot to save Nicholas II and the others. I speculated that it was Yurovsky and his men who executed the five Letts in the basement of the Impatiev House ..... instead of Nicholas II and the others...

___
....Rskkyia:  "What is the point of even mentioning the "supposed deaths" of the "Latvian guards?"

Answer:  This was a speculation on my part:  The Letts were executed to cover up a rescue.....

----
...Rskkyia:  "bait" ?
Answer:  This is a speculation.  I  do not know why you called my speculation "bait".  Please explain.
----

....Rskkyia:  "teasing"?
Answer:  I repeat, this is speculation.   I do not know why you called my speculation "teasing"  Please explain.

----

Quote

FA This is exactly what I have tried to suggest to Agrbear as problematic for some time...Maybe she'll listen to you...(The "latvian guards" all tarted up in dresses and some smattering of jewelry is quite an amusing image!)
LOL
rskkiya


May I ask how you came up with this about the five dead Letts?  Were some of the bodies of the  Letts  dressed up in the Romanov clothes?  

AGRBear

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2004, 12:04:15 AM »
Quote
I really don't see any reason for the story they were killed the next day and brought back to the same spot. It doesn't make any sense, and honestly, even if it were true it would not be interesting or earth shaking.It's boring and I don't believe it anyway. Oh well.


Discovering the truth, even if it isn't "earth shaking",  is always important.

AGRBear



« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2004, 01:11:25 AM »
Quote
All of this sounds like utter nonsense to me.Why don't you just spill your story of what Herr XXXX told you when you were 5 Agrbear.Or is this gameplaying fun for you?I know I for one am sick of it.If you have some valid information to share then by all means share it.Otherwise enough is enough already.


Can you tell me why you believe my speculation as "nonsense"?
I based my speculations because of  Capt. Malinovsky's  testimony.  Malinovsky was a professional investigator  who was one of the first investigators at the Impatiev house  in July 1918.  He wrote:  
 "As  the results of my work on this case I became convinced that the imperial family was alive.  It appeared to me that the Bolsheviks had shot someone in the room in order to simulate the murder of the imperisl family, had taken them away in the night along the Koptyaki road, also, with the purpose of simulating a murder....  That is how I thought, and it also seemed to me that everything I had observed during the investigation was a simulation of murder."

 
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Merrique

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2004, 07:21:18 AM »
Right.
Don't knock on Death's door....ring the doorbell and run. He hates that.:D

Annie

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2004, 08:33:24 AM »
WHY would they want to simulate a murder they were telling everyone did not take place? They were reporting only the Tsar was killed. That's what they wanted most people to believe. That's the biggest problem I have with these theories on this, the faked and staged stuff being speculated on is very much against what the Bolsheviks were trying to achieve- making people believe that the family was safe and only N had been shot. So it doesn't make sense for them to stage a murder scene :P therefore it is all unrealistic and pointless.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2004, 10:34:59 AM »
Quote
WHY would they want to simulate a murder they were telling everyone did not take place? They were reporting only the Tsar was killed. That's what they wanted most people to believe. That's the biggest problem I have with these theories on this, the faked and staged stuff being speculated on is very much against what the Bolsheviks were trying to achieve- making people believe that the family was safe and only N had been shot. So it doesn't make sense for them to stage a murder scene :P therefore it is all unrealistic and pointless.


Good points, Annie.

So,  let me think about this for a few moments.

They  [I assume you mean the CHEKA, Ural Soviets and Moscow Soviets] were reporting they had just executed Nicholas II.  Most of us understand this fact is very true. 

SPECULATIONS:

My speculation can only push forth other speculations to answer Annie's questions.

With the entire family missing,  the Ekaterinburg CHEKA had to simulate the deaths of the entire family.  They had no choice at that time, night of 16/17 July 1918....

After making it appear that the entire family was executed,  I assume in Moscow the head of the CHEKA and Lenin gave the order that the world be told that just Nicholas II was executed.

In  many books,  there are mention reasons why Lenin and Trotsky didn't want the world to know that Nicholas II's wife and children were executed.  One of the important reasons may have been:  At that same time  Trotsky was secretly using the Nicholas II's family  as  "items for trade" for guns and bullets which the Bolsheviks desperately needed.  

If Moscow announced the deaths of the very people they had offered in trade,  the gun deal would fail.  

Meanwhile,  trains were being searched for missing IF family members.  A fact many  witnesses have reported.

Meanwhile, Yurovsky and others were collecting various items they had left at the Four Brother's mine and since they couldn't return some of the items to the Impatiev House,  clothes were burnt.... The bodies of the five Letts were  hidden in the woods....  

There was a lot of events occuring in and around Ekaterinburg with the White Army approaching.   At that point,  The Whites were growing stronger and  defeating the Red Army.   Reilly and his band of merry men were bringing in huge shipments of guns by ship from the USA's Remington gun factory....

Remember,  my speculation does not have nine out of the eleven escape the Bolshviks.  The nine must have hunted them down because nine bodies [in part] did end up in a grave in Pig's Meadow.

No one, however,  has explained why so man bones, which should have been found, were missing in the grave in Pig's Meadow.  This indicates,  to me and others, some of the bodies may have been buried else where and then buried, again, with the others, later, in Pig's Meadow.

There is evidence the Pig's Meadow grave has been open three, four,  maybe as many as five times before the bones were completely removed.....

AGRBear

PS  Please take a look at the thread about sightings of IF family members after 16 July 1918:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=anastasia;action=display;num=1091994509

PSS  Greg Wilson and I had a coversation about the various telegrams which can be found:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=revolution;action=display;num=1097423232;start=0#0

PSS See some interesting information on Lenin's Letts which is mentioned by Penny Wilson on the following URL:
http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?action=display;board=anastasia;num=1074956237;start=300#312
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

rskkiya

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Re: "Grabbing at Straws"
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2004, 11:43:10 AM »
Agrbear

  Who exactly were the "Five Letts" that you love to discusss? Names Please? Most of the Guards at Exaterinburge seem to have either died in the Civil War or gone on with their lives...so who exactly are you looking for?
  It seems to me that your arguement is a bit too fanciful to be taken seriously..."Suppose" appears to be your favourite word --Suppose/suppose/suppose...
  It's just as plausible that the "extra bodies" were in fact, taken abord an Alien Spacecraft!
Yes that's it -- the Aliens, working secretly with the German Secret Forces and a crack team of Yeti Mountaineers....yesss!
LOLLOLLOL

try again :-/
rskkiya
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »