Author Topic: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History  (Read 5635 times)

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Offline AlexofLisbon

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Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« on: August 03, 2010, 12:48:02 PM »
Dear co-readers,
This is the first time I have posted a message which is more like a question I hope finds itself some answers.
Does anyone ever heard about a french Bourbon, legitimate, illegitimate, from any family line - can even be a Orléans line - that has abandoned France at some point (maybe during the total ban the whole family suffered in 1797 by the Directoire) and that his/her final destination has never been confirmed or the correspondent known biography leaves suspicion that the official time of death is wrong because the whereabouts and fate is in fact unknown?
If yes has Portugal been the destination of this person/persons?
Many thanks,
AlexofLisbon

Offline AlexofLisbon

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Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 07:10:50 AM »
Apparently no has ever heard of this subject or is not interested.
I totally understand that not having romantic pictures to show is not as interesting as having some.
In case you could recommend an expert in French Revolution, the society of those days and has information about the Royal emigrants please pass me down the contact: I would be most obliged. This information will be most useful for an investigation to a potential romance.

Offline Tybalt

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Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2010, 10:57:48 AM »
Hello !

 There is Louis-François II Joseph deBourbon-Conti (1/9/1734-Paris+13/3/1814-Barcelona), comte de La Marche, prince de Conti, he was exiled by the Directoire in these times. He died in Barcelona in exile.

Offline AlexofLisbon

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Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 11:37:01 AM »
Dear Tybalt,

Thank you for your reply. Most appreciated!
Louis-François Bourbon-Conti was exiled to Spain where he died. Nevertheless I'm interested in any Bourbon survivor that history can not really confirm the final whereabouts - that have vanished from records - or someone or some persons whose records are incorrect, undetermined, suspicious or impossible to prove.
In case you have an idea or know of an expert on the subject I would be very obliged to have some contact.
Many Thanks,
AlexofLisbon

Offline Tybalt

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Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 09:08:32 AM »
Hello !


http://roglo.eu/roglo?lang=fr;i=1331397

  Here you have a little biography of a natural son of Louis-Philippe d'Orléans (Philippe Égalité), he died in Spain in 1812 in Badajoz (near Portugal!)

Offline AlexofLisbon

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Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 10:26:28 AM »
Dear Tybalt,

I  must thank you again for your precious help. I believe you must be very close, not so much of the person himself but the principle behind it. What I mean is apparently most royals have issued illegitimate offspring and the identity of some of those are buried in history.
Do you have any knowledge of a similar situation (illegitimate children) of this following persons:

Louis Joseph de Bourbon, prince de Condé (13 April 1756 - 30 August 1830)

Louise Marie Thérèse Bathilde d'Orléans, princesse de Condé (Saint-Cloud, July 9 1750 - Paris, January 10 1822) – she had an illegitimate daughter. Do you know what has became of her after her mother died? Did she have other illegitimate offspring being that his nephew Louis-Philippe, tried to give an air of respectability to her bohemian lifestyle by burning both the manuscript of her memoirs and a file on her young police officer located in the war archives.

The reason I'm insisting on these branch of the family, Condé, is related to the fact that I have a feeling that the person I'm after is related somehow to this family.
The Condé were related to the Carnations and I know a family who call themselves "Cravo" which means carnation in Portuguese and I'm intrigued to find a connection.

Again many thanks and regards from hot Lisbon,
AlexaofLisbon

Offline Tybalt

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Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2011, 09:11:27 AM »
The illegitimated children of Bathilde of Orléans and of her husband, Louis VI Henri de Condé haven't lived in Portugal (one of the grand-daughter of Bathilde, Julie Marie Albertine Gros was born in Barcelona on 02/18/1800, http://www.geneall.net/F/per_page.php?id=147681). That's the only thing I can find.

Offline AlexofLisbon

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Re: Bourbon Survivors Unknown to History
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 07:55:29 AM »
Dear Tybalt,

Yes, when Bathilde was exiled to Spain she was accompanied by her daughter Adelaïde-Victoire who she never publicly mothered.
While in Sarrià Bathilde did a series of watercolours and paintings of life in Catalunya and there is one very curious of a baby in his cradle, dated from 1798 – follow this link: http://www.europeana.eu/portal/record/03903/DBFB2D646E0E6A6D51718EE44740424C87ECA530.html?query=europeana_uri%3A%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.europeana.eu%2Fresolve%2Frecord%2F03903%2F120374426A5E25063EC3BFDB288AE62D92994E21%22&start=4&startPage=1&pageId=brd&view=table#
Well, Bathilde is knowned for having painted her son Antoine, Duke of Enghien when he was a child.
By the date we know that the child in the painting is not her grand-daughter. So who might that be? It could be many people but apparently it is not the son of a servant because the scene takes place in the living-room.
Anyway this is what I think has happened: Bathilde was escorted by a young gendarme and between them a relationship has sprung. This is reported in many sources and also the relationship raised some sort of scandal, maybe because of the age difference or the social class difference but the truth is that this relationship survived for decades and they reunited in Paris after her return to the city in 1814.
A child was born, a male who she called Joaquin (port. Joaquim), in reference to the white column in Solomon’s Temple which the French-Masons to whom Bathilde was a Grand-Maîtraise believed to mean the force and the will of God. This is what this child was, a survivor against all odds, son of a 47 year old woman in exile.
This son lived with her until 1908, year when the French army invaded Catalunya and she had to let her son go for security reasons. She must have bared in mind the hatred felt by Napolean against her family, hatred that already had killed her first son by the hands of the Emperor so she parted from her son who ended up in Portugal where the French-Masonry was quite active.
We must not forget some facts: this child was a problem to the ruling house of Orléans as Bathilde was still married to the Prince of Condé and if he was mothered by Bathilde he would be presumed by law son of Henry, Prince of Condé, owner of a vast estate coveted by the Orléans. Eventually the fortune became to a son of King Louis Philippe but not after a lot of pressure to the Prince who disliked the Orléans family. In addition King Louis Philippe went in to great lengths to obliterate the references to the gendarme having destroyed his military records and his aunt Bathilde’s journals and diaries.
In fact this child's life was threatened while in France or claiming his motherhood of Bathilde.
Thank you for reading and I hope someone find some facts that might shed some light in to this amazing story.
Thank you for reading!