Author Topic: Julia P. Gelardi: From Splendor to Revolution: The Romanov Women, 1847-1928  (Read 37472 times)

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Offline blessOTMA

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Basically the first shots of the Russian Revolution rang out in the courtyard of the Yussupov's St. Petersburg palace and lodged themselves into the body of Grigori Yefimovich Rasputin . By killing Rasputin in such a public manner...the family  only showed it was  hopelessly broken...and  because of the  family members involved in this debacle , the Russian nation learned what  their the nearest and dearest thought of  N and A.  Yussupov represented the  Minnie side , and GD Dimity represented Ella side...so there was no family support for the throne at all.

You do not take this act without going all the way...and removing N II from the throne and placing another there... That has to be part of any such attack on the throne by the ruling family.   I frankly  have no idea what the Romanovs thought they would accomplish with this disastrous half measure. The Romanovs  stared the Russian Revolution, but they left the ending to others. 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Alixz

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I just don't see much to recommend her as a nice person. She may have been a great Empress, but even when that should have ended, she wouldn't let it go and continued to interfere in the lives of her family and the political world as well.

The fact that she stated quite clearly that she would not leave Yalta before everyone else had been evacuated (the ship was anchored for 3 days in the end), as well as bringing countless others on board the Marlborough too shows a less selfish & kind & caring side IMO.

Also being Empress of Russia you can't really blame her for getting used to having things her own way! Plus at  71 y.o. I wouldn't begrudge her that.

Also leaving her homeland of 50 years & not wanting to leave personal possessions behind (bad enough losing ones home) I can hardly blame her for taking her time. Plus as I have said even after Empress Marie embarked the ship did not leave for 3 days as they still had work to do.

Also with Russia falling apart I can't blame her for attempting to interfere in politics. It would have been awful to just sit back & watch.

I agree with your contention that insisting on bringing all who wished to go was a caring thing to do.  But whether or not she was used to having things her own way, there is a limit to what one an endure while waiting for an old lady (even an Empress) to exercise her prerogatives.  Prerogatives that actually no longer existed, by the way, as she was not only Dowager, but Ex-Empress at that point.  

One can not still act as if one has rights and privileges when someone else is risking his life to save you from the Bolsheviks.  And she was safer on the ship than she would be on land and the other refugee and the British sailors who were risking their lives for her would be safer as well.

And as for leaving her possessions and her home, as Kerensky said to Alexandra in Nicholas & Alexandra (even if it was a plot invention) She should be glad that she still had her head.

There was reference to Marie Feodorovna undermining Nicholas practically from the day of the ascension.  There are other books and sources that say she would have liked to have seen Michael proclaimed Tsar with her as his regent.  (I know sources sources, but I don't have that information right now.)

Offline blessOTMA

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New review of this book In the on line journal, California Literary Review
 
http://calitreview.com/14792
 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Eddie_uk

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Thanks! My copy arrived today! Can't wait to make a start! However I was suprised the book is not thicker!!
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Offline Vecchiolarry

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Hi,

I would have liked the women to have been:
Alexandra Iosifovna
Anastasia Michaelovna
Maria Pavlovna
and
Queen Olga

I think The Dowager Empress has been covered nicely already and also Maria Alexandrovna too...

Larry

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One can not still act as if one has rights and privileges when someone else is risking his life to save you from the Bolsheviks.  

This reminds me of what GD Olga Alexandrovna told Ian Vorres - that when the Germans took care of the Bolsheviks in the Crimea, for enough time as to allow the Romanovs who were there to get the hell out, Marie Feodorovna refused to receive the German officer in charge, contending that Germany was still at war with Russia.


Offline Vecchiolarry

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Hi,

Well, Maria Feodorovna was 'always at war withe Germans', no matter what time frame one puts on it!!  Since Denmark lost its war with Prussia in 1864, all the Danish Royal Family was anti-German, especially Queen Alexandra and the Dowager Empress.
So she of course, refused to receive the German elite, as she still thought of them as "the enemy"...

This is just my impression of her thought process;  but I'll bet that's exactly the way she thought.....

Larry

Offline blessOTMA

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Larry, as you point out, Maria Feodorovna's feelings and thoughts towards Germany  had  roots  much deeper than those  stemming  from  the current war .  Yes Minnie was no longer an Empress...but since  the German elite itself  recognized  her status by even wanting an audience , she was right to refuse it ....They gave her that platform...of course MF used it .  It reminds me of Earl Mountbatten not allowing the Japanese be represented at his funeral ...even though it was many years later and we all were  allies by then. Because somethings must be remembered,  and honored  ...I frankly think the Germans  respected her attitude...and indeed that was one of the reasons  they sought her audience. It meant something. It wasn't a cloth cut to current style. 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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Larry, as you point out, Maria Feodorovna's feelings and thoughts towards Germany  had  roots  much deeper than those  stemming  from  the current war.

Their deepest roots was probably from the time back in 1863 when her father, fresh on the throne, refused to sign the constitution which he knew would cause a disastrous war with Germany and people called the RF unpatriotic Germans, spat after their carriage and the RF started to fear for their safety (MF's mother had to call the police to protect the palace from the mob) and wrote to Alexander II for help, according to our Glücksburg expert kmerov. Parts of this heavy anti-Germanness might simply have been typical psychological repression of the neurosis of once having been called a German traitor by threatening groups of her own people. This history site at Aarhus University describes the prevailing atmosphere in Copenhagen "almost revolutionary".
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 11:27:18 AM by Фёдор Петрович »

Naslednik Norvezhskiy

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This reminds me of what GD Olga Alexandrovna told Ian Vorres - that when the Germans took care of the Bolsheviks in the Crimea, for enough time as to allow the Romanovs who were there to get the hell out, Marie Feodorovna refused to receive the German officer in charge, contending that Germany was still at war with Russia.

No doubt the Russian revolutions, both in 1905 and 1917, must have triggered the memories of those November days in Copenhagen, but I think one reason just as good as 1864 for her refusing the audience was the fact that she didn't want to be associated with the enemy in any way in case the revolution could be stopped. Saved by the enemy from their own people, that wasn't a good starting-point for a restored monarchy.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 11:39:24 AM by Фёдор Петрович »

Alixz

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I just think that she should have been more "gracious' (as everyone always said she was) and met with the Germans.  That is why I see her as haughty and intractable.

Is someone saves your life, then you should be grateful no matter who they are.  And besides, Kaiser Wilhelm II tried to save parts of the Imperial Family when no one on the Entente side cared to. 

Having finished reading (this is for another thread as well) The Royal Court at Sea and hearing about her petty quarrel with the "Dulbers", I think she was still an old interfering biddy who was spoilt and could not accept that her world was going, going, gone.

Offline grandduchessella

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Not releasing perhaps what would be unlease, Wilhelm's German Foreign Minister gave permission for Lenin to pass from Zurich through Germany into Russia to help destabilize the country. At Lenin's request the carriage would be protected from interference by a special grant of extraterritorial status. They boarded at Gottmadingen, just short of the official German crossing station at Singen. Accompanied by two German Army officers, who sat at the rear of the single carriage behind a chalked line, the exiles travelled through Frankfurt and Berlin to Sassnitz , where a ferry took them to Trelleborg. The Bolsheviks were the only major political faction to demand an immediate end to Russia's participation in World War I. This central demand brings them not only widespread support in Russia, but also financial and logistical help from the government of Wilhelm. Lenin's revolution is in large part made possible by the Germans, who want to be able to withdraw their troops from the Eastern front to deploy them in the war theater in France. Didn't end up so well for his relations.

There is still some question involving British involvement behind the scenes in terms of a rescue, I always was curious about the Danish response. The Danes were just as  close relationship-wise (first cousin to the Emperor, the Dowager a Danish princess) as well as geographically closer. They were also able to perhaps play a better diplomatic game. I wonder if some of that information is filed away in the archives that researchers aren't allowed access to. It certainly gets little attention.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 03:25:15 PM by grandduchessella »
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Offline blessOTMA

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.... Wilhelm's German Foreign Minister gave permission for Lenin to pass from Zurich through Germany into Russia to help destabilize the country. At Lenin's request the carriage would be protected from interference by a special grant of extraterritorial status. 
Interesting info in your post ! When I discussed this with my husband, he immediately mentioned Germany sent Lenin to Russia....enough of a reason to refuse meeting them... Alixz  I see what you are saying, but when you have lost your family, country even world, one might not be able to be gracious towards  those you hold responsible...then one has not even that last inch, when all else is lost:  self respect. This was not the first time Minnie "enjoyed" German hospitality...they arrested her and her party at the beginning of the war as well. I'm not a big fan of MF,   but I  think they owed her at least a rescue. 

"Give my love to all who remember me."

  Olga Nikolaevna

Offline Eddie_uk

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I have flicked through this book & it looks fab! I could never warm to the Duchess of Coburg, following QV's death she writes to Missy complaining her sisters in laws are "babies" (for pete's sake they have just lost there mother!!) & complains that Alexandras gesture of refusing to be called Queen was all fake! I find the Duchess fascinating but no warmth at all!!
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Alixz

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Not releasing perhaps what would be unlease, Wilhelm's German Foreign Minister gave permission for Lenin to pass from Zurich through Germany into Russia to help destabilize the country. At Lenin's request the carriage would be protected from interference by a special grant of extraterritorial status. They boarded at Gottmadingen, just short of the official German crossing station at Singen. Accompanied by two German Army officers, who sat at the rear of the single carriage behind a chalked line, the exiles travelled through Frankfurt and Berlin to Sassnitz , where a ferry took them to Trelleborg. The Bolsheviks were the only major political faction to demand an immediate end to Russia's participation in World War I. This central demand brings them not only widespread support in Russia, but also financial and logistical help from the government of Wilhelm. Lenin's revolution is in large part made possible by the Germans, who want to be able to withdraw their troops from the Eastern front to deploy them in the war theater in France. Didn't end up so well for his relations.

There is still some question involving British involvement behind the scenes in terms of a rescue, I always was curious about the Danish response. The Danes were just as  close relationship-wise (first cousin to the Emperor, the Dowager a Danish princess) as well as geographically closer. They were also able to perhaps play a better diplomatic game. I wonder if some of that information is filed away in the archives that researchers aren't allowed access to. It certainly gets little attention.

Did Marie Feodorovna know that Wilhelm's Foreign Minister gave Lenin permission to pass through Germany in 1919?  Did anyone know that at the time or did historians find out later and if so when was that fact made public?