Russia No Longer Free?

[helenazar]

I don't wish to compare Putin with Hitler except in one respect: in 1933 the latter was also supported, in fairly free democratic elections, by a vast majority of the German people.

If one could imagine - purely as a mental exercise - free elections in the USSR in 1937, Stalin and his henchmen would undoubtedly gain a landslide victory. Even today, after all revelations and exposures, Stalin is immensely popular in Russia. Which presents an old and still unanswered question: Do most people of Russia love freedom, or rather prefer to be governed with an "iron hand"?...

Mike, you are absolutely right.

IMHO, the Russian people, collectively speaking, are not really sure what to do with "freedom", whatever that means, so it sort of backfires. Autocracy didn't work, communism, or whatever they had until 1991 didn't  work, "democracy" or whatever it is they supposedly have now, doesn't seem to work either. Maybe they are just trying to make too many changes too fast and it just doesn't work that way. It's such a complex country and such a complex collective mentality, I feel sorry for anyone who sets themselves up to be their leader, whether via "freedom" or via "the iron hand"!  

[Robert_Hall]

Whatever direction the Russian people decide to follow, it is entirely up to them. Outide influence and even opinions are quite unwelcome .

[helenazar]

Whatever direction the Russian people decide to follow, it is entirely up to them.

Yes, I agree. But we can still have an opinion  

[Mike]

An old Soviet joke suddenly sprang to my mind:
An elderly lady asks an official: "Tell me please, do I have the right to..."
Official interrupts her: "Sure granny, of course you have!"
Lady: "Thank you so much! Therefore I can..."
Official interrupts her: "No granny, you definitely cannot!"

[Silja]

Of course it is up to the Russian people to support whomsoever they like. This doesn't mean I may not have an opinion about that choice or even criticize it.

[Robert_Hall]

I did not mean to deny anyone's right to an opinion. You all know I have some pretty definite one's myself ! What I was trying to get accross is the Russian penchant of resentment towards foreigners [judging] the way things are done in their country.

[helenazar]

Having an opinion doesn't always mean "judging"...

[Jmentanko]

Western values are Russia's curse, to be honest.

Besides, the USA in considered democratic and free, but look at the poor country.

I've lived in Russia long enough to understand that, unless you're an oposing politician, this so-called "lack of freedom" doesn't affect you much. I've felt more "free" in Russia than I did in the U.S. In fact, this bit here -

"Today in Russia there are no independent mass media, no independent court, parliament, business. There is no public control over special forces and police. There are practically no elections which are not controlled by the authorities."

- sounds suspiciously like the Land of the Free.

That's just what I think.

Yet some more anti-American diatribe. Jeez, I almost feel sory for the "Great Satan."

[olga]

Alex is right.

[Elisabeth]

Not anti-American at all. Just saying that American nation as a whole should stop living under illusion of our own freedom and democracy and step down from the self-appointed position as the guardians of the above-mentioned values, as well as abandon attempts to impose our lifestyle on cultures much older than ours.

Well, as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

But while you can argue that the US tried to "impose" its "lifestyle" on Iraq (which by the way, is a country cobbled together after WWII and not by any stretch of the imagination a single culture "much older" - and therfore by implication wiser?!? - than ours), you can't say the same about Russia. Russians and more importantly the peoples of the Baltic states, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and so on (all those peoples the Soviet Union imposed its lifestyle on!) freely chose Western-style democracy. In fact they marched in the streets for it. And most of them, in contrast to good old Russia, are doing quite well now, thank you very much. Which begs the question, what's wrong with Russia itself that it can't get its act together?

[Dashkova]

Well, as they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

But while you can argue that the US tried to "impose" its "lifestyle" on Iraq (which by the way, is a country cobbled together after WWII and not by any stretch of the imagination a single culture "much older" - and therfore by implication wiser?!? - than ours), you can't say the same about Russia. Russians and more importantly the peoples of the Baltic states, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and so on (all those peoples the Soviet Union imposed its lifestyle on!) freely chose Western-style democracy. In fact they marched in the streets for it. And most of them, in contrast to good old Russia, are doing quite well now, thank you very much. Which begs the question, what's wrong with Russia itself that it can't get its act together?

I thought you knew Russian history better than to make that sort of remark   :-/
As for Iraq, true *technically* the current "state" was formed rather haphazardly (by western interests) not so long ago, but come on....their culture is WAY older than the states. Do you recall the Academy at Baghdad? It was the greatest center of learning in the world for centuries!  Much of what the west calls "religion" came out of the ancient heritage of the region between the Tigris and the Euphrates, as well as modern notions of medicine, mathematics, and science.  And it cannot be correctly said that "oh, that doesn't count b'cos I'm talking about 'modern' Iraq."  That would just be a load of bs, because what we see currently was ENTIRELY created by interferring westerners of the 20th century.  The *people* and their *culture* are extraordinarily significant culturally-speaking and thousands of years older than the American culture.

[Elisabeth]

Cultures, particularly ancient ones, go through different phases over the centuries, Dashkova. They don't remain static. I'm well aware of ancient Assyro-Babylonian culture and its connections with and significance to our own.

But you're not addressing my chief question. Why isn't Russia doing as well as most of its former "satellites"? Why is it regressing politically? Why is its economy still so dependent on high oil prices?

Recently in Russia there have been many rumors that Putin will be overthrown soon in a coup, perhaps led by the oligarchs. What do you (and others) think about this?

[Dashkova]

Western values are Russia's curse, to be honest.

Besides, the USA in considered democratic and free, but look at the poor country.

I've lived in Russia long enough to understand that, unless you're an oposing politician, this so-called "lack of freedom" doesn't affect you much. I've felt more "free" in Russia than I did in the U.S. In fact, this bit here -

"Today in Russia there are no independent mass media, no independent court, parliament, business. There is no public control over special forces and police. There are practically no elections which are not controlled by the authorities."

- sounds suspiciously like the Land of the Free.

That's just what I think.

I, too, agree with Alex.  I am American, and proud of it, but I won't live in denial.

I love your remark about how free you feel in Russia.  I know what you mean.  I know we're not the only ones, either. Not by a long shot.

[Dashkova]

Cultures, particularly ancient ones, go through different phases over the centuries, Dashkova. They don't remain static. I'm well aware of ancient Assyro-Babylonian culture and its connections with and significance to our own.

But you're not addressing my chief question. Why isn't Russia doing as well as most of its former "satellites"? Why is it regressing politically? Why is its economy still so dependent on high oil prices?

Recently in Russia there have been many rumors that Putin will be overthrown soon in a coup, perhaps led by the oligarchs. What do you (and others) think about this?

Why can't you just admit to a poorly written post?  You are TOTALLY wrong about Iraq, and for the reasons I've stated.

Russia?  Why should I spell out the obvious for you?  If you didn't learn certain inevitables from studying the history of that country, I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to you here.

I do not think Putin will be overthrown in a coup, in fact, I think it will be quite the opposite.  But as always, with regard to Russia, no one can tell and it's a wasted exercise to speculate.

[Elisabeth]

Er, returning to the coup question - has anyone else heard these rumors and what do you think? Would a coup against Putin be a good thing for Russia at this point or just another major setback on the road to democracy?

P.S. Intellectual curiosity is never a waste of time.