Author Topic: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2  (Read 127710 times)

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Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #120 on: March 18, 2012, 08:38:00 PM »
I have been for the past six years collecting info and photos of Grand Duchess Ellen, whom is my favorite Russian Grand Duchess after the Tsar's four daughters OTMA. and from what I can tell of Ellen that she is an old school royal, kind and lovely but when it comes to rank and money can be a terrible snob. Her mother never let her forget that she was an "imperial Grand Duchess" of the largest Empire on Earth and the Grand Duchess Vladimir was a very ambitious and clever woman, as the 3rd Lady of the Empire after the two Empresses, she spoiled her children beyond rotten. That’s why her sons were charming yet irresponsible and snobby. Ellen was snobby too but at least she did her imperial duties well along with doing A LOT of charity works.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 09:04:31 PM by Mandie, the Gothic Empress »

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #121 on: March 19, 2012, 04:00:29 AM »
'Charming yet irresponsible' seems a pretty fair description of the Vladimirovitchi boys (Vladimirotrashy - I like it!). I've just been reading Coryne Hall's 'Imperial Dancer', about Mathilde Ksessinskaya, in which Andrei comes across as a pleasant fellow, but very lightweight.

Alice of Athlone met Boris on a trip to Thailand and described him as 'very agreeable [the charm again] but he drank too much'.

Ann

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #122 on: March 19, 2012, 12:51:44 PM »
Boris almost married Alice's cousin Victoria Eugenia ("Ena") of Battenberg, but she turned him down. I don't know how Miechen would have taken it had Ena said yes ? Ena was in the same boat at Alice of Battenberg, Ellen's future sister-in-law, a product of a morganetic marriage.

Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #123 on: March 19, 2012, 05:35:01 PM »
I think we all have an inkling of what Miechen's character would have been like if Ena said yes to Boris. The fact that 1. Ena's paternal line is morgantic 2. Ena's a granddaughter of Queen Victoria...yeah that she would have hated indeed  And as for Vladimir becoming a better Tsar than his brother Alexander III, I beg to differ.  That is a load of crap.  The Vladimirovichi's although interesting very snobby ppl, especially Elena, her first cousin Grand Duchess Olga Alex was also an old school royal but she didn't behave in such a manner, but I was glad to hear that Elena was against Cyril's proclamation as Tsar. 

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #124 on: March 20, 2012, 12:07:35 AM »
Yes. Elena did not think it is right to do so when the Dowager Empress was still alive and so much confusion at the time in Russia (the deaths were not known yet). It was bad taste, and Elena wanted no part of it. That ties in to what Elena thought was right and proper.

Offline Mandie, the Gothic Empress

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #125 on: March 20, 2012, 12:09:11 AM »
I think the reason why MOST Romanov fans hate the Vladimirovichi branch because of the Empress Alexandra's hatred for them, personally I like them.

Snobby or not, anyone born into a rich family or be allowed to do anything they want can turn into a brat. Anastasia Nikolaievna and Alexei Nikolaievich were  spoiled brats like Vladimirovichi boys and Elena Vladimirovna, and the Empress herself was very full of herself like Grand Duchess Vladimir.  

'Charming yet irresponsible' "seems a pretty fair description" i was pretty much nailing them all with just one sentence that pop into my head. plus Andrei Vladimirovich wasn't much different from Mikhail Alexandrovich. both were nice guys, cooless of the outside world problems, both lived openly with their mistresses later wives, both had sons out of wedlock..only real difference is that MA was killed in 1918, while AV lived to old age (by Romanov standards)

Offline Kalafrana

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #126 on: March 20, 2012, 04:35:18 AM »
'Snobby or not, anyone born into a rich family or be allowed to do anything they want can turn into a brat. Anastasia Nikolaievna and Alexei Nikolaievich were  spoiled brats like Vladimirovichi boys and Elena Vladimirovna, and the Empress herself was very full of herself like Grand Duchess Vladimir.'

Agree entirely. I also agree that there are a lot of similarities between Andrei Vladimirovich and Mikhail Alexandrovich. Part of the problem with them, and other Grand Dukes, was that they had huge amounts of money and no serious responsibilities. Andrei was given command of the Guard Artillery, but that was a fairly nominal role, and Mikhail comanded the Blue Curassiers, but, again, doubtless his subordinates did all the work.

I note that during the war neither Andrei nor Boris even got as far as the Stavka, but spent all their time in Petrograd.

I have a nice vision of Boris laying on the charm with Alice of Athlone on the trip to Thailand, with much hand-kissing and heel-clicking and a slight but definite aroma of too much brandy!

Ann

Offline bestfriendsgirl

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #127 on: March 20, 2012, 08:00:35 AM »
I agree, Boris really didn't "do his bit" in the war, but he did go to Mogilev to pay his respects after Nicholas abdicated, when very few other family members did. A class move on his part, IMO - I've always thought that under that drunken playboy exterior, he was a decent person at heart.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #128 on: March 20, 2012, 10:01:10 AM »
Boris was lazy but harmless unlike Cyril who defected to the Provincial Government. In later accounts, it was Ducky who fanned Cyril's pretension for the throne in exile.

Offline Vecchiolarry

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #129 on: March 20, 2012, 11:23:25 AM »
Hi,

I too do not hate nor dislike the Vladimirovitchi's.  They were all interesting and certainly they were not boring.....
They were no better nor no worse than any other branch(s) of the Romanovs and held their own with other royal and noble families in Europe...

Actually, I quite like Aunt Meichen;  much as I like Archduchess Sophie of Austria ("the only 'man' among the Austrian Archdukes")!!!!!  And, Queen Maria Cristina of Spain.......

Larry

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #130 on: March 20, 2012, 11:45:12 AM »
Miechen is too proud. ambitious and demanding for my taste. Elena was a prettier, softer and nicer version of her. I like her much better.

Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #131 on: March 20, 2012, 01:49:48 PM »
The only ones of the Vladimirovichi branch that I saw as good were Boris and Andrei, despite their lewd ways with the ladies they were good deep down inside and didn't seem to be overzealous and ambitious in gaining a throne like their father, mother, and eldest brother and were not overly pompous like their sister and mother. But yes Elena was very beautiful and produced such beautiful daughters. Nevertheless GD Vladimir unexpectedly close to become Emperor in 1888 when Alexander III with his wife and all of their children were involved in a train accident at Borki. Vladimir and his wife were at the time in Paris and did not bother to come back to Russia. This annoyed Alexander III who commented that if he would have died with his children, Vladimir would have ruched to return to Russia to become Emperor GD Vladimir I have a distaste for, according to Perry & Pleshakov, The Flight of the Romanovs , p.63- 67 At Alexander III's death in 1894 there were unfounded rumors that the army intended to proclaim Grand Duke Vladimir emperor in place of his nephew Nicholas II. over which Vladimir tried to have an influence, particularly at the beginning of Nicholas II’s reign.  The Vladimirovichi were greedy, power hungry, and deceptive people with the exception of Boris, Elena, and Andrei. These people were bad branches and rotten to the core to begin with. Vladimir always believed he'd be a better tsar, not with that hot temper he had.  Its a shame they weren't elected monarchs in Bulgaria, Georgia, or something of the sort, maybe if that happened that would have saved the Alexandrovichi's some grief. 

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #132 on: March 20, 2012, 02:14:10 PM »
Yes. Both Vladimir and Miechen were both proud and ambitious. I think Boris, Andrei & Elena turned out to be "quite normal" in such circumstances. Cyril was always seen as a cold fish. Both he and Ducky bonded in their ambition for the vacant throne, especially after they were exiled. That gave meaning to their relationship, she was not a bystander in Cyril's pretensions. Like Miechen, Ducky was a full partner in their schemes.

Offline QueenEna1887

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #133 on: March 20, 2012, 07:12:33 PM »
Like I said disloyal and vindictive family members and that trait still carries on today, how sad some things dont change.

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: The Vladimirovitchi - discussion and pictures, Part 2
« Reply #134 on: March 21, 2012, 01:35:01 PM »
Yes. Ambition trumps loyalty in that family...