Author Topic: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II  (Read 7028 times)

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Offline rlbumich

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"fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« on: September 12, 2010, 04:07:10 PM »
I found it odd that the "fateful number 17" played a key role in Nicholas II's life.  17 October 1888 imperial train crashes at Borki, and Alexander III and others narrowly escaped tragedy.  17 October 1905 the Nicholas signed the famous manifesto of civil liberties and thus, according to some, signed his own death warrant.  Fatal year 1917 of the dynasty begans, during which there were two revolutions.  And finally, on the night of July 17, 1918 in Yekaterinburg on the orders of Lenin's government, Nicholas II and his family was shot.

Odd? Or another coincidence?  Very errie!

PS. After his death, Raputin's body was exposed to fire, water, and wind! Coincidence?
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Offline nena

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Re: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 06:07:45 AM »
Well, nothing happens so 'coincidentally, accidentally'. (According to Carl Gustav Jung). He explored this special case of 'coincidence', I have read an article about it. Though I don't know what do moderators think about this topic, since it is has no historical point, but everything you have said is absolutely correct.

I have noticed it myself too, and not only about the number 17. It really seems that numbers are 'cosmical principle'. Irina Alexandrovna and Madame Vyrubova were both born on the 16th, (OS style, though in 19th century, Irina was born on 16th, and IF celebrated it on the 16th).

Really interesting notices....
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Offline LauraO

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Re: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 10:37:40 AM »
i don't really believe in coincidences i think things are just meant to be- but i would strongly agree- 17 isn't looking like a number that fate could make room for where nicholas was concerned.

Offline jehan

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Re: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2010, 09:30:11 AM »
Well, given that there are only 28-31 days in a month, and we can play with 2 different calendars to get the results we want, I don't think it's any more coincidental than any other number you could pick.  What about his birth, Alexei's birth,  his father's death, Khodynka field,  the Spala incident. that actual dates of the revolutions (only one of which was in 1917 btw), Rasputin's death, family assassinations and deaths,  any relevant dates for WW1 (battles, beginning, taking command of the army)- all fateful dates, but were any on the 17th in either calendar?  Possibly .  But there are hundreds -possibly thousands-  of events that happen in the life of an monarch and his country during his lifetime.  It would be statistically impossible for some of them NOT to have the same date.
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Offline nena

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Re: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2010, 10:05:08 AM »
Nicholas' born date matches with the day of St. John Wonder-worker, Russian Orthodox martyr - who ended his life in violent day. Just as Nicholas the Second. I don't really think it's coincidental event. Also, on July 17th 1903, IF visited canonization of St. Serafim Sarovsky.

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It would be statistically impossible for some of them NOT to have the same date.

Indeed. But, does it mean that it have northing to do with the link between exact numbers and important events of Nicholas' storyline? If so, why?

I understand your point, since it is rational way of thinking, but too much coincidences....Since October Manifesto, or Imperial Train crash, or IF's death are really important events in the Russian history, IMHO.

Just my two cents.

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 09:44:02 AM »
I think when bad things happen, we look for some patterns that will help explain whatever happened. I remember when President Kennedy was assassinated, there was a long list of similarities between him and Abraham Lincoln that was circulated. As if that helped. To be sure many things happened to Nicholas II on the 17th, but to me it explains nothing about his ultimate tragedy.

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Re: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 10:23:35 AM »
I agree with jehan.  With two calendars and many ways of interpreting the dates, it only makes sense that the number 17 could show up a lot.

Also, I agree with the fact that so many other important dates didn't fall on the 17.  For example Nicholas's birthday to begin with.

Offline nena

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Re: "fateful number" 17 for Nicholas II
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010, 05:35:21 PM »
The question of the member 'rlbumich' was whether is the 'phenomenon' of number 17 just a coincidence or not?

Well, we choose the answer by way of our way of thinking. Rational way would say 'No, it is just a coincidence, it has nothing to do with other important date in Tsar's life'.

But, there is something stronger - the term of 'believe'. The problem is in the quantifier in making the sentence. If we say ' Every Nicholas' famous event or date fell on July 17th' we would say a lie. (Since it is not correct). But if we say, 'Some (or better say 'surprisingly') many famous dates/events in Tsar's life fell on 17th', we would be absolutely correct.

Also, I agree with the fact that so many other important dates didn't fall on the 17.  For example Nicholas's birthday to begin with.

Absolutely, Nicholas' birthday date did not fall on 17th in the month, but exactly On the Wonder-Worker's day in Russian Orthodox Calendar. And not, definitely it is not a coincidence.

Yes, it is our wisdom that makes the answers -- so in the end everyone is partly correct. ;-)
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