Author Topic: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain  (Read 177354 times)

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Ssyentz

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #255 on: July 05, 2005, 11:21:27 AM »
How difficult it must have been for her to be what others expected her to be.  Her husband needed a safe, stable status quo, totally free from disturbances while her mother needed extravagance all around her.  So, she was to be a soothing anchor for her husband and a worshipful subject for her mother.

With her sensitive mind, who would not try to find a way to create internal harmony from such cacophony?!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ssyentz »

Ssyentz

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #256 on: July 05, 2005, 11:31:20 AM »
Blutoria...you are so kind!

IMO, her journey was indeed like that of Ella.  As I find it to be in so many cases, the assurance of their final set of beliefs is based on ownership.  Neither could settle for the directives of others.  Obviously, Ella's direction was obviously other-centered, likely for two reasons:  1) she had no children of her own for whom she was singularly the mother, and 2) she had more time to make her mark.  

Ella's blend, I guess, was somewhat more orthodox, especially in light of her surroundings.  But her departures from orthodoxy (wish to be buried in Jerusalem, etc.) seem to be as significant as they could be.  You're the expert here, does this make sense?

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #257 on: July 05, 2005, 11:45:31 AM »
Ssyentz, I'm just so fascinated by all you write, all of which certainly does make sense.  :) Yes, I agree that Ella's circumstances enabled her to devote herself to her beliefs in a quite different way to her mother, but I think that their 'driving force' was exactly the same. Perhaps Ella found in Orthodoxy, what Alice was looking for outside established religion. Although, Ella, despite, her commitment to her new religion, often found herself - as her mother had done - at odds with the authorities (e.g. in establishing her Order & in her wish to appoint deaconesses.)

In your earlier post, you wrote of how difficult it must have been for so sensitive a soul as Alice. You have expressed it so perfectly. I feel that she was totally misunderstood by virtually everyone around her. Her husband lacked her depth of character; her mother, as you say, was so self-absorbed...if only her father had lived, she might have felt far less alone. Have you read her terribly moving description of listening to music which reminded her of her father? I posted it on another thread & will see if I can find it.

I think she was a truly profound and much misunderstood person - her character is so like that of an artist or a poet or composer, don't you think?

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #258 on: July 05, 2005, 11:47:15 AM »
Quote
With her sensitive mind, who would not try to find a way to create internal harmony from such cacophony?!


Oh how beautiful!

(The quotation about music which I mentioned is, btw, on page 1 of this thread  :'()
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Ssyentz

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #259 on: July 05, 2005, 12:04:28 PM »
Thank you again!  Sometimes what we write reveals so much!  The music references just happened!  (Just as I've told my students for years!)

Yes, I've read about her link to her father when hearing certain pieces.  Remember how she played the piano for her father in December '61?  And, now that I think of it, I remember Ernie writing about how he & his mother enjoyed playing the piano together.  Also, another recollection...Alice's writing that touching piano keys right after Frittie's death was so painful in that it reminded her of the times he would reach for her fingers while she was playing, trying to lure her away to play with him.

Wouldn't she love to read Ernie's comment?  

Would there have ever been something of a woman if one were to find a blend of Alice and her sister Louise?  Just a notion...maybe that was Ella!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ssyentz »

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #260 on: July 05, 2005, 12:11:50 PM »
It is absolutely heart breaking - her thoughts of Frittie reaching for her hand!!! Oh you can just imagine how she must have felt!!!

Alice & Louise = Ella?  ;D (Without Louise's cutting tongue!!)

Ssyentz

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #261 on: July 05, 2005, 12:39:11 PM »
Louise (see my post in the Windsor section...Louise & Lorne thread) had such a problem with royalty.  She, like Alice, was imbued with that "duty" aura.  Obviously, Alice could easily accept her varying "royal" roles, but Louise was the only "royal" in her marriage.  

That "other" status made it a little easier for Louise to find some freedom to pursue her talents without too much criticism.  She certainly, however, had the weak physical constitution that, when it really set in, gave rise to her cure-seeking.

On the other hand, Alice took the heat every time she dared so much as to disagree with QV, Helena, or anyone else.  She and Vicky were the dutiful ones, with the obvious inclusion of Beatrice; Vicky & Beatrice managed, for the most part, to maintain that lofty status with QV through well-learned verbal and attitudinal machinations.  Alice, with her open speech, was criticized repeatedly for actually stating what she really felt!

At any rate, the talented Alice and Louise seem to be evident, at least to me, in Ella.  One would probably have to include a part of Vicky, too, in her ability to carry off her imperious grace.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ssyentz »

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #262 on: July 06, 2005, 05:56:00 AM »
Yes, I agree with you again! Alice was so 'honest' (a characteristic which Alix, doubtlessly inherited) that she couldn't keep silent when something needed saying. There was, for example, the occasion when Vicky suggested they send a petition to their mother asking for the removal of John Brown. While all her siblings were complaining about him, Alice was the one to speak out and so she took the brunt of her mother's anger.
The same could be said for Alice telling QV that it was time to come out of mourning and play her role as Queen again. The whole of the Government - the whole of the country - felt the same, but Alice was the one to say it and was accused of having 'airs & graces' & upsetting everyone! (By 'everyone' QV surely meant herself!!)

I can't quite see Louise in Ella, as you do...except for the artistic ability which the whole family seemed to share. But I do see so much of both Princess Alice & Prince Albert in her....(Not that I'm disagreeing with you; just saying I don't quite see it  :))


Ssyentz

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #263 on: July 07, 2005, 10:47:50 AM »
With my mind really elsewhere...as all of ours are...let me at least give an idea of how I connect Louise with Ella.

The ability each of them had to use their conciliatory talents to make things happen is, IMO, striking.  From something as incidental as soothing hard feelings among siblings and their mother which Louise did even as a child to Ella's using the same talent to get her convent sanctioned, including (as she pretty much had to, & she knew it) explaining her feelings and motives to Nicky who could and did issue an imperial decree.  That ability was so genuine in each of them; they could see varying points of view and find meeting points without ever being cunningly manipulative.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Ssyentz »

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #264 on: July 07, 2005, 11:11:05 AM »
I just want to note, while our thoughts are indeed elsewhere, the BEST thing that we can do is to carry on as usual. I encourage everyone to do so, as the events of the day are deliberately designed to disrupt the normal flow of civilized (or civilised) society.

FA

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #265 on: July 07, 2005, 11:28:55 AM »
Thank you FA for your advice. It does make one feel rather heartless to carry on as usual but you are quite right and your timely advice is very reassuring.

Therefore....

Ssyentz, I am intrigued about Louise soothing relations between her siblings & mother. I had always thought of her as the one who caused the most disagreements, which is why I could not understand your seeing her similarity to Ella. I had better go & read up more on Louise!!

Ssyentz

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #266 on: July 07, 2005, 12:04:10 PM »
I've relied on Longford & Wake, basically.  Can't find the pg #'s right now, but I remember, for instance, citations regarding various situations in which she attempted to get Bertie to see QV's point of view.  nAnd she did so without reprimands, simply trying to put in simple terms why QV might insist on something and how Bertie should more appropriately react.  

And to my mind also come recollections about her success at persuading QV to take certain actions, for example, allowing her (L) to go to art school, getting Boehm & somene else (escapes me at the moment) buired in West. Abbey.  

I've most likely made an unfounded connection, but since both E and L seem to carry such diferent yet equally magnificent dignity, they seem connected.  And, in her own individual way, Vicky had that dignity, too.

bluetoria

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #267 on: July 08, 2005, 09:42:09 AM »
Thank you Ssyentz for your explanation - I'll go back & read Longford again!

To return to Princess Alice, do you not think it interesting how her children seem to have each inherited a different one of her traits. Victoria, for example, seems to have inherited her disregard for dress & status, and her excellent organizational skills. Ella, clearly inherited her concern for the poor & suffering; Alix shared her introspective spirituality; Ernie her artistic ability. What of Irene? Any ideas?

Ssyentz

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #268 on: July 08, 2005, 07:25:25 PM »
What an interesting perspective.  I don't know enough about Irene to even begin thinking of her in that light.  Since I plan to focus on Ella for a while as soon as my neighbor brings me my mail which should include a book I'm rather impatiently waiting for ('tho the publisher assures me it's been sent!) and to which I intend to give my full attention.  Then, it'll be intriguing to study Irene.  Any suggestions for sources?

Finelly

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Re: Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, Princess of Great Britain
« Reply #269 on: July 09, 2005, 10:00:28 AM »
Both Ella and Alix inherited her belief that suffering was redemptive.